AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Maven on March 16, 2010, 08:01:53 PM
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I've been giving serious thought to purchasing a used .62cal. [smoothbore] Trade Gun and have been looking at North Star West (actually shouldered one of these) and Jackie Brown products. Would you be kind enough to enumerate the strengths and weaknesses of each manufacturer or point me elsewhere if the 2 I named are poor choices. Btw, if you don't wish to comment publicly on this, would you send me a private message?
Thanks in advance, Paul.
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North Star has been making trade guns as long as I can remember and it should be a good product. I do not know about Jackie West. The heart of a NWTG is in its lock. If it sparks well then it should be usable. If copied true to form it may not fit that well as the originals didn't either. If you want to be totally PC the most appropriate bore for a NWTG is 24 gauge. They made some of the early repos in 20 and I am not knocking getting one in that gauge either. Some like the 20 as it makes for a slightly lighter gun.
DP
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You mention "used"; are they Northwest Co or HBC Co style guns? There were quite a wide range of smoothbore guns built for the NA trade.
If I were trying to choose between two different used guns I'd ask to remove the lock and look at the back and see if you can figure out which brand of lock was used. That can make a significant difference.
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PW,
Just a thought,(OH OH). Take a look at R.E. Davis web site. For a few bucks more, they make a real long barreled one in .62 which I like.
http://www.redaviscompany.com/0412.html This is a kit for 750.00 with brass furniture. Walnut or maple. I'd go with maple.
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I know Matt Denison of North Star has measured and examined many Trade
Guns at the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska and does his best to duplicate the originals.
I had the good fortune of being camped next to Matt at one of the Fur Trade Days Rendezvous about 4 - 5 years ago. I was over at his camp every day handling those Trade Guns he bought along, and enjoyed visiting with him.
The Fur Trade Museum allowing someone to access the Trade Guns for examination to build authentic was/is very impressive to me. I'm sure it happens eleswhere as well.
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How do you propose using the smoothy, line shoots, woodswalks or hunting mainly?? Shot or r ball?
For w walks and line shoots with r ball my vote goes for a 28 gauge. Less pounding your skinny shoulder, less powder and lead= less $ cost.
Wanted to add a bit heavier and would 'hang' better offhand. :)
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I'm no builder, so I guess it'll have to be an off off-the-rack piece. Also, I'm not fanatical about HC or PC (both meanings), but I don't want an abomination either. Actually, I saw a used NSW .58cal. trade gun at Dixon's on Saturday that fit me perfectly, but I was concerned about how thin the muzzle was. Roger asked what I'll use it for. Roundball only for target shooting mostly and an occasional woods walk. I also thought .62cal was a mite large and a bit more bruising than a smaller caliber/gauge. Keep the advice coming, as I truly appreciate it.
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I'm with Roger as far as gauge is concerned. The weight of the ball determines the recoil more than the load of powder.
Skinny muzzles are great for carrying and authenticity. Thicker is better for round ball accuracy
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for years I had a french trade gun I made with one of Curly's North Star barrels. 28 gauge I think--anyway it was about 58 cal. later I made a Tulle with a 62 or 64 cal smooth bore. It was a great looking gun but it did not shoot near as well or near as comfortably as the 58 cal one even though almost all the other parts were configured similarly.
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PW,
Just a thought,(OH OH). Take a look at R.E. Davis web site. For a few bucks more, they make a real long barreled one in .62 which I like.
http://www.redaviscompany.com/0412.html This is a kit for 750.00 with brass furniture. Walnut or maple. I'd go with maple.
since you said PC wasn't a priority this quote is Ok--but if PC is wanted [by any reader], walnut would be a better choice--this kit makes into a fine PC French trade gun when so stocked.
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I would not get a North West Trade Gun in 12 bore. I had one, many years ago and although a great sparker and pretty much a gaurantee for ignition, it's 5 1/2 pound weight was murder for recoil with any normal load. That was my first flinter and last, for probably 20 years. I've only just now gotten to where I do OK with a scratch-lock.
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I built up some of the 12 bore versions in the 80s for member of our local reenactment group. they made a cheap entry level gun and were fine for bland loads in parades and mock battles. but boy did they get a shockeroo when we went to our end of season private rendezvous where we were able to do some live fire shooting. more than a couple guys switched guns over the following winter
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I made a 12 bore that was compfortable but it was a "musket" styled weapon as possibly used in the revolution, styled somewhat after the Bess. They were common guns. I just talked to the guy I sold it too and he regrets selling it and wants to buy it back. I made it to fit. I had a Bess recreation that was a great gun but bruised the cheek. I have seen a few originals with the cheek area carved out. The big bore smoothies will serve very well, but as stated are spendy to shoot. The Colerain barrels have the same contour in both 20 and 24 gauge such that the 24 is slightly heavier. 20 bore has slightly better sources for wads if shot is used. For roundball use at rondys the 24 would be best. Also much more authentic in the Barnets that are most commonly offered in NWTG's.
DP
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Caywood Guns, Arkansas (www.caywoodguns.com) makes Northwest guns in 20, 24, and 28 gage. Wonderful sparking locks. Delivery slow. Gotta order walnut stock special, otherwise comes thru stained maple. Use modern shotgun barrel blanks. 1137Mod gun barrel quality steel, rather than screw stock for the barrels. I have a 41-1/2" long barreled 20 ga jug-choked "French Type D". Got it just before shoulder damage in '08 kept me out of shooting for a while. Fine workmanship.
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I think I'd get a 24 or 28 gauge. Crispy and Roger do well with their 28 gauge smoothies.
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I just took possession of a 24ga North Star West trade gun, and I have to say it is an awesome gun. I have a really nice .62 Tulle built by Ron Gueldner which I love, but will probably be shooting the NW gun more than it now. It is very accurate with RB, and a joy to carry. Just my .02
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Do remember Pedersoli, who make a good 20 ga (really 19ga) Northwest gun. Available from Cherry's Fine Guns for about $900, with walnut stock. Barrel of quenched & tempered medium carbon steel (C40 Italian designation).
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I would consider keeping an eye out for a used Caywood. Their Wilson trade gun has an excellent lock and shoots well. They have other models of English and French style trade guns as well. They turn up on Track of the Wolf from time to time.
Guy
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I wish that someone would make an early trade gun, like those found buried at Saratown, NC with the Occaneechee. 5 foot barrel, wrought iron hardware and a big Jacobite Flint lock.
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I bet Mike Brooks could build you one Danny ;-D
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Since no one has mentioned him, I have a 20 gage Jackie Brown early VA, iron mounted with siler lock, walnut and aged a little. It does great. I am very happy and for $750 you get your money's worth. I realize it is not a super custom musket, but for what I us it for and what I can afford it does the trick. Just my $.02 worth.
Ronnie
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$750 usually won't cover good quality parts for a gun. Like my .32 rifle, anything under $1,000 is a steal if well made.
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I just bought a 62 last month and it shoots straight and true, however, it thumps me on my cheek bone pretty good and I haven't figured what to do about it yet. That is with 60 grains of FF and a 600 ball. Something you might want to think about.
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I just bought a 62 last month and it shoots straight and true, however, it thumps me on my cheek bone pretty good and I haven't figured what to do about it yet. That is with 60 grains of FF and a 600 ball. Something you might want to think about.
You may be a stock crawler (as I am) Try laying back on the stock a tad (cheek closer to the butt) Let us know how that works,,,
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I just bought a 62 last month and it shoots straight and true, however, it thumps me on my cheek bone pretty good and I haven't figured what to do about it yet. That is with 60 grains of FF and a 600 ball. Something you might want to think about.
What style is the stock??
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drtimboone It is a Tulle style.