New to building need to choose a model

[Tomegad]

I am getting ready to build my first rifle and need to decide on the model/style. Perhaps some of you ladies and gentleman would care to weigh in on the subject. I have a pretty good set up for both wood and metal work and have been making things for over 25 years so the hand skills are there . I say that because I am not looking for simplest or easiest. This rifle will be for target shooting and I like pretty

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Go to http://flintlocks.com/ for some of the best parts sets that money can buy.  You'll also need to acquire one or two of the excellent building books available from TOW and others.  And you will need to know how to get chisels hospital sharp.

[flintriflesmith]

I believe most folks find the building experience to be more satisfying if they have some sort of tie to the region and/or period of rifle they are building. Sometimes the link is simply where their family roots were or where they find a historic connection. A rifle that would have been carried in 1780 PA is a totally different animal from one carried by the folks crossing the prairie by covered wagon in 1830.

Rifles made specifically for competitive target shooting are also subject to certain rules, in terms of weight, types of sights, etc., that would make some period designs a bad choice. Informal paper punching, woods walks, and etc. are all different so you need to think about how you will use the rifle as well.

Gary

[smylee grouch]

You didnt say flint or perc. and what kinda pretty.  Fancy wood can fit in alot of time frames, but say rococo or baroque carving might be left for earlier styles. One maker that spaned flintlock era into perc was Jacob Kunz from Phild. but I dont think he would be a make that you would want to copy on you first gun.  Good luck which ever way you go.    Gary

[Tomegad]

I am interested in flintlocks. I am a traditionally trained violin maker so I'm good with complex wood working. I worked in the blacksmith shop at Mystic Seaport in the 70s. I have a forge and foundry in my yard. I also have a pretty good machine shop. Historically my main interest at this time is the french and Indian war. I am from Vermont but have traveled widely and have lived in the Rocky Mountain states and Alaska. Currently I live in southern California.Ive owned Hawkins reproductions and have enjoyed them but the classic ? long rifle is more attractive to my eye plus you have a lot more artistic freedom than in making a plains rifle as I see it. I do not intend to do a bench copy per say or perhaps you call them authentic reproductions , rather sometime that allows me to put something of myself into it. My thoughts are a classic long rifle form. I am thinking about doing all the metal work except for the barrel. Yes its probably more than I should take on but no one who aims low hits his mark. I mean no disrespect to anyone here, I am only asking for input. So what is the most esthetically pleasing rifle to you folks?

[smallpatch]

Tomegad,

  The questions already asked hold the direction to answer your questions.  The old adage, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, very much pertains here.  There are dozens of "classic longrifle" forms.

My favorite regional style, and therefore the most beautiful to me is the Lehigh Valley of Penn.  But, ask the next guy, and you'll get a totally different answer.
Flintriflesmith said it well.  To see the beauty, and to be inspired to be creative, takes some kind of connection with either the area, or builder, or style.  You'll find one with some mystery, or romance, that just reaches out and grabs you, and draws you to that style.  The one I like may totally turn you off.
  With all that being said, you need to find out what YOU like.

   Get some books, check out the originals, find something you like, figure out why. Then we can give some input that might help.  If you can't buy, a lot of libraries have "Rifles of Colonial America, Vol I and II.  Thoughts of the American Longrifle in it's Golden Age.  James B Whisker has published many books of regional styles.

   There is a wealth of information on this site, and many willing to share.  Help us help you.  We'll give it our best.

[Michael]

Tomegad,

Spend the time to do the research. Find a rifle or rifles that appeal to YOU, no sense spending the time making something your not going to be pleased with. Study the rifle and others made by that gunsmith or rifles made in the same 'school' and then apprentice yourself to that gunsmith.  This way you can work within the 'spirit' of the rifle and still add your own touches. As an example look at the work of John Bonewitz and Leonard Reedy, master and apprentice and each one a Master by themselves. Most importantly get the architecture right!

Michael

[Tom Currie]

From your background I get the feeling you are looking to put some artistic work, that is baroque or roccoco wood carving and or engraving,  into your build. You also mentioned F + I war as one of your interests. There are very very few extend examples of lavishly decorated F + I war era longrifles that have survived. Most lavish artistic work was done from the revolution through 1810 or so.

I might suggest you research early Bethlemen/Christian Springs 1770-1780 work as a start. You can view some excellent contemporary work of this period on Allen Martin's website. Do a google search and you will find it.

Like others have stated , spend your time researching . First builds are rarely the last build, and most often half way through you already know what you will do better next time.

[Robby]

Tomegad, Personally, I think the most graceful and elegant of all the different styles would be the Lehigh Valley and the Bucks county schools of architecture. If your looking for difficult, The Lehigh, I think, would be the way to go, because it is hard to make one a pleasant gun to shoot, and still maintain the qualities that make it so graceful in appearance, but it is doable. To me, the planning, the building, and the shooting of something I made are equally enjoyable, that is what makes this so absorbing. Good luck.
Robby

[Don Getz]

Tomegad......unfortunately, you live out in that territory of California.   If you can get a passport, come east to Lexington<
in August to the great CLA show and look at and feel some good guns, this will better enable you to determine what you
like, and appears to be within your capabilities.  It is really beyond our capabilities to tell you what to build.    As a suggestion, since you have a forge, you might undertake building a nice southern mountain rifle, you will find many of them pictured here on the forum.............Don

[keweenaw]

All the above advice is good.  Look at Jim Chambers web site as Taylor suggested to see fairly representative rifles of major early schools of longrifle building.  While Lehigh rifles are elegant and turn many people on, they are also architecturally the most difficult to build and very subtle changes can make a huge impact on them.  It's also hard to get a feel for how they should be done unless you can handle some original guns or very, very good copies.  I've handled a number or originals as well as many copies and still wouldn't feel confident that I could pull one off working from photos.  Once you pick a style you want to build it's much easier to pick out the details that you need to do the subtle things necessary to make a great rifle.  Don's advice is the best - come to the CLA show in Lexington and see the best of contemporary work in almost any style you could want as well as a great number of original guns.  Doesn't get any better than that.

In a way all this is like violin making.  You can instantly pick out whether an instrument if French, Italian or even what area of Germany it was made in and in many cases the maker.  But it takes a long time to develop the eye for those details.  And as you know it's generally considered unacceptable to do a mix an match in building a new instrument.

Tom

[J.D.]

You have received good advise. The books are necessary, but there is also the Virtual museum and library on this site, with a veritable wealth of illustrations of many firelocks of many schools and time periods.

Someone mentioned Allen Martin's page, and there are good photos there, but let's not forget Eric Kettenburg's page, with equally good sample of his work.

In addition, there are good photos of originals on  the American Historic services page and Joe Kindig's page. Online antique auction services often have detailed photos of longrifles and the Contemporary makers blog is an excellent source of contemporary work, as is the Contemporary Longrifle Association's page.

All of those web pages will be easy to find through  simple searches.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

There are many of the links the guys mentioned and more on our site at: http://www.americanlongrifles.org/Web_links_frame.htm

Tomegad, Do you have a preference for smoothbore or rifle?  New England style fowlers and french trade guns could fit your F&I war interest and VT roots,,,,, They have beautiful architecture and finishes and some carving and or engraving.

As part of your familiarization, don't overlook the beautiful guns built in England and Europe during the F&I war period..they were imported during that time too.

Personally I am partial to the early Lancaster rifle style.. See Bill Shipman's site.  Jim Klein has a Peter Berry Kit that is terrific.  A kit from Klein or Berry or several other makers (really a collection of parts-- not a quick assembly job like the CVA Hawken etc.) for the first gun is a good way to get a feel for good architecture. 


The CLA show is a great idea as is taking a class at Jim Chambers, Conner Prairie, or http://www.nmlra.org/pdfs/web_GunsmithSeminar2010.pdf
The NMLRA Gunsmith Seminar

[GrampaJack]

Much good advice here. I can tell you from my experience many years ago that the most valuable tool I had for my first build was a mentor. I was pretty impressed with me as far as fine wood working was concerned until my first long rifle. Forty years of concentrating on straight glue lines and strong joints fell short when it came to proportions of sweeping lines and position of inlays.  Building that gun was a humbling experience to say the least. I was very fortunate to have a good friend who was very experienced and his guidance (and especially his patience) along the way was the reason my experience was not a total disaster. I was amazed at how much difference 1/16th" of wood can make in the total look of a long rifle.  He would tell me what he wanted me to do in a given week and then come back next week and look at what I had done and tell me how to fix it. This resulted in a very long build time but what an education.  If you can find someone to help you with the first one it will pay rich dividends. One of my favorites of his rules was "the 10 foot look". Periodically he required that all work stop, the gun be hung horizontally on the wall, I back up 10 feet, and just look at the whole picture. I can't explain it but this pause to look and think often prevented serious mistakes. Best of luck in your first build. Once done it's a great experience. Jack

[Tomegad]

thank you for all your input . It is greatly appreciate. I am going to try to get to the CLA this summer

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Tomegad,

Can we pick your brains re violin finishes etc from the 18th century and how they may or may not apply to gunmaking???

[Tomegad]

of course! The great varnish mystery. It goes on and on but I do know a bit about the subject.

[msw]

Conner Prairie is a great deal and i wish that i could afford the time... the other advice is also very good... i'd get as many of the videos as possible (not that they;ll tell you anything that you haven't seen or can't do, but that they will provide good insight into stylistic differences).

Although i'm also in Vermont, I like the Southern Mountain style; simple and straight without being crude.

One guy's opinion, and no doubt worth every penny.

[California Kid]

I too want to know how Stradivarius made his varnish!

[Tomegad]

If you ladies and gentleman wish to discuss vanish from the 1700S  I am happy to share what I know. Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread