12 Ga Shotgun

[nhflinter]

Question re: patterning a 12 guage (no choke): I'm shooting 65 gr powder, 1 1/8 oz of shot & my pattern has a hole in the middle.  Suggestions?

[smokinbuck]

I've got one with both cyl bores, a Pedersoli, that I shoot with 3 drams of 2F and equal shot. I take the OS wads and break them in half and seem to get tighter patterns. You might also try a plastic shot cup.
Mark

[SCLoyalist]

Following link has several suggestions about patterns:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloader_shotguns.htm

[omark]

if you use plastic cups, be sure to use a card and lubed cushion on top of the powder, otherwise the plastic will melt. also, generally smaller powder in comparison to shot charges will help. since we have to use an overshot wad, you may never completely eliminate the hole.  happy hunting, mark

[California Kid]

If using an 1/2" cushion wad, cut it in half. Less weight to follow the shot charge and create the " donught hole". Works well in my 14 bore fowler without any choke, i.e. traditional.

[stubshaft]

I get the best patterns out of my Pedersoli by NOT using a fiber wad.  I just use two .125" wads OP charge with 1 1/8oz shot (over 85gr 2F) and have at it.

[northmn]

Patterning a cylinder bore to eliminate the donut hole usually requires a little powder charge experimentation.  Stubshafts load of 85 grains of powder and 1 1/8 is very clsoe to an even up powder measure shot measure load which used to be common.  I have used fiber wads but recommend that they be used for holding lube for trap shooting or informal clay shooting.  I cut thm down to 1/4 inch or less and have used water for lube by throwing them in a cup before use.  Keeps fouling down for easier loading.  Instead of plastic I recommend you use paper strips, like from a shopping bag, cut to fit the load.  Some plastic wads have been know to stay with the shot and slug.  I ahve shot steel from mine using steel wads but slit them at least 5 times and very deep or else cut off the cup and slit them length wise.  The old SAM wads or the Ballistic Products LBC wads work best as they can hold lube. For general use I use the old VM Starr method of two card wads.  Less stuff to carry in the field.  I peel off part of one for an overshot wad.  I used to shoot ducks with a cylinder bore when lead was legal and did well over decoys. Someday may make a flint double for duck hunting.  They can be made to shoot.

DP

[Dave K]

I have excellent results with using a 1/2 fiber cushion, that has been cut in half and lubed with olive oil. For me, the biggest reason for the cushion is to use as a lube carrier to keep the barrel from fouling up. Of course I use an over powder card on top of the powder and an over shoot card on top of the shoot. Some have had good luck with using several over shot cards stacked and used as an over powder card. The idea is the that the thin cards will fly out of the shot stream right away and not place that hole in the pattern. I though, just like that lubed cushion so I can get many shots without having a fouled up barrel. If I am only planning one shot, such as turkey hunting, I will use no cushion. I have not shot any choked guns as mine are all cyl. bored.

[northmn]

the use of several overshot cards as overpowder wads also sound good.  Everyone is so oriented to modern shooting we forget that wads for a ML shotgun can vary.  Some used to swear by the old hornests nests, I have used soft paper like in napkins, one crew I knew used toilet paper,  shredded paper might work.  Who knows, maybe card wads are too efficient?

DP

[Steve-In]

I had an 11 bore that shot donut shaped patterns.  It was belled out at muzzle to a little bigger than 10 gage.  I tried several combinations of wads but I was never able to get decent coverage.  Even the Star method did not work.  Since the ribs were lifting I sent the barrels off to be rejoined, bobbed, bored and jug choked.  Problem solved.  If there is no bell you might send it off for a mild jug choke

[bob in the woods]

My fowler likes a  wool/felt  wad. Presently I'm using wads punched from an old cowboy hat.  One or two
depending on the charge. It also prefers size 4 or 5 shot, the patterns opening up with 6 or 71/2
For what I use it for, the 4 is good so I haven't worked much on the others. 

[nhflinter]

Thanks To everyone!!  Did some work today and settled on the following from your suggestions: 75 gr of powder, no fiber wad, just over powder card and the donut hole disappeared.  The load was a good place to start and I've got a feeling I'm not finished experimenting, but no fiber wad really helped!  The first test included it and the donut hole appeared, as did a hole in the target made by the wad at 20 yards!  In the end a half dozen pellets were kill shots in a turkey target.  I'm still working at it, but you got me on the right track!  Appreciate the help!

[Dave K]

GREAT! Now, that you have a base line that works, you have something to branch out with. If you may want to shoot multiple shots, you can now see how thick or thin  a lubed cushion you can use and still keep the fouling soft. The only reason I use a lubed cushion is to keep the fouling soft, bacause I do not want swab beween shots. I do not though use a cushion for one shot, shooting ,like when turkey hunting.

[Daryl]

We got a straight cylinder 15 bore Manton shooting well using a full 1/2" circle Fly wad with a load of 1oz. 7 1/2's at 72% each barrel.  Increasing the shot charge, or increasing or decreasing the powder would produce donuts in one barrel or the other.  Only that one load would shoot perfectly round patterns with both barrels.  One load, using 75gr. (2 3/4drams) and an ounce went 83% in the right barrel, but the left dropped to 56% and showed a large donut.
 Doubles are particularly troublesome as not only do you have to find a load that will pattern well with each barrel.  It's easy to find a good load that patterns well in one side or the other, but it's usually a different load needed for either barrel - the trick being to find a single load that does well in both.