Stain

[gdk]

I am unable to get any Aqua Fortis up here. So my question is has anyone tried the Min Wax Stains? It is the only stain I am able to find. Any info would be greately appreciated.

Gary

[billd]

Where's "Up Here"?

Bill

[gdk]

Alberta Canada.  I envy you guys down south that have all the good stuff available to you. It is neer impossible to find any traditonal black powder anything here.

[Larry Luck]

Try Ferric Nitrate from a chemical supply company.  It is in crystalline form and is safe enough for the US mail.
I use it because I do not want to mess with nitric acid.
I mix the crystals 1:5 by volume with water.  A 3oz dixie cup of FeO3 and 15 oz of water lasts multiple guns, powder horns, etc.
See if you can get it.
Larry Luck

[ramserl]

my first build I used minwax stain.  4th build will be to restock my first build.  turned out to brown did nothing for the small amount of curl that it had

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

gdk...I know what gd stands for but Canuck starts with a "C".  I think I'm going to do the same, since Prince George BC isn't any better off, than where you are in Alberta.  Let us know how you make out.

[Larry Luck]

Taylor,
Can you order Ferric Nitrate there?
Larry Luck

[g.pennell]

Taylor, that's certainly some beautiful country!  I spent a month in BC back in 1993, training with the 1st CER out of Chilliwack...we drove up the Fraser? valley to their field training site, as I remember pretty near Prince George.  Thing I remember most is the big horn (stone?) sheep picking grass on the shoulder of the road!

Greg

[bluenoser]

Larry,

I live in Southern BC.

I don't know about other suppliers, but The Science Company will only ship within the USA.  I had to have it shipped to a US address and pick it up there.

Laurie

[omark]

i know a fella that uses nothing but leather dye. his guns look pretty good.  FWIW   mark

[Mark Elliott]

There are other period correct finishes that you can use.   You can try vinegar and iron, but you need real rusty iron for it to work right.   You can use tar dissolved in turpentine.   You could also use yellow and red violin varnish; red on top of yellow.   I would think that you should be able to get your hands on one or more of these or the components thereof.

Speaking of violin  varnish. I just finished making up my first batch.  I know it doesn't wear as well as oil, but I am pretty sure it seals better and it dries almost instantly.   Basically,  it works and looks like the Minwax Polyshades (stain and polyurethane).   You just brush on coat after coat until you get the color you want.   It dries in seconds.   Now, I have an exciting new toy to play with.

Mark E.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Will/can Chambers not send Laurel Mtn Forge stains to Canada???   Well aniline dyes and denatured alcohol, eh??  Jim Klein has Danglers stain. He is in Michigan..... got a friend close to the border??

[bluenoser]

"You can use tar dissolved in turpentine"
Mark,

That is the first time I have seen any mention of this stain.  Two or three years ago, I reworked a little 40 cal I picked up on a trade.  I don't want to get into any discussions about messing with someone elses work.  The builder had done a good job on the metalwork and the inletting was, for the most part, quite good, but he had left way too much wood on it.  It had a dark finish with very good contrast and the finish went very deep into the wood - especially the curl.

I spent months experimenting with every concoction I could think of to match that stain.  You name it and I bet I brewed it!  Finally, in desperation I dissolved tar in some turpentine - a lot of tar to be exact - and tried it.  Voila, a perfect match.

I have to say, I think this is probably the nicest dark finish I have ever seen.  I wish I had kept notes.  I believe I applied AF and then the stain.  I believe final finish was Linspeed, but may have been straight boiled linseed.  Thanks to my lack of foresight and old @$#% memory, I will have to do some experimenting the next time I want to use it.  The curl is almost black, but the lighter areas are what really stand out.  They appear almost translucent and have a depth to them I can't recall ever seeing before.

And here I thought I had rediscovered some secret or long-forgotten recipe!  I would encourage anyone who wants a dark finish on curly maple to give this recipe a try.

Laurie

[bluenoser]

Will/can Chambers not send Laurel Mtn Forge stains to Canada???   Well aniline dyes and denatured alcohol, eh??  Jim Klein has Danglers stain. He is in Michigan..... got a friend close to the border??

Contrary to the claims of some manufacturers, analine dyes will fade if exposed to direct sunlight for an extended period of time.  I conducted an experiment using analine dye on a curly maple test strip and exposing 1/2 of the test strip to late afternoon sunlight over a period of just over one year.  It was probably in direct sunlight about three or four hours per day.  It faded by approximately 50%.  What I would have called a rather pleasing nut brown faded to a rather pale muddy brown.

Laurie

[keweenaw]

Not all aniline dyes are the same.  The ones sold as light fast are.  The oil soluble ones are the least light fast.  Water soluble ones tend to be pretty light fast.  Virtually any finish on wood will change color with prolonged direct exposure to sunlight.  Aniline dyes are not, however, the best way to bring out curl.

[John Archer]

Ferric nitrate is available in Canada....I bought some 3 years ago..... 500 grams for $33 at that time.

J.D. Photochemical Inc.
PO 99011
Succ Du Tremblay
Longueuil QC
J4N0A5
email: contact@jdphotochemical.com
Tel: 450 646-9650

John.

[bluenoser]

Not all aniline dyes are the same.  The ones sold as light fast are.  The oil soluble ones are the least light fast.  Water soluble ones tend to be pretty light fast.  Virtually any finish on wood will change color with prolonged direct exposure to sunlight.  Aniline dyes are not, however, the best way to bring out curl.

I agree that not all analine dyes are the same.  We used a lot of anline dyes in the cabinetmaking shop and took care to choose only the highest quality with a preference for water based.  The dye I tested was a high quality water based product marketed as light fast.  It was in fact far from light fast with prolonged exposure to direct sunlight.  I agree with your comment regarding products changing color to some extent with prolonged direct exposure to sunlight.  In this case, the fading was clearly excessive IMHO.  I conducted the test to determine if analine dyes would be suitable for tinting gunstocks.  My conclusion was that the finished product might look good out of the gate, but the color would wash out over time.  I would not use it on a gun.

I agree, there are better ways to bring out curl.  I was looking at analine dyes as a possible shading medium.

Laurie

[bgf]

In response to the original poster, I hate to recommend Minwax stains on the internet, just because they are a popular whipping post.  However, I have had pretty good luck using them, especially the penetrating oil-based stain, by being careful during application to keep the piece "wet" with stain and rubbing it in rather than just letting it sit before wiping off as the directions imply.  When I apply them in this fashion, I get clear grain structure and blotching is minimal; the color will be lighter than if applied according to the directions, though.  In my opinion, the difference is that this method allows the dyes and some pigments to penetrate, but does not let pigment sit on the surface.

Why would I use such a terrible product?  Well, it is always available, in a wide range of colors that can also be mixed .  I like water and alchohol based stains as well, but I have to order them or drive a long way to get them; also, they dry so quickly that achieving an even tone with out "edges" seems more challenging on larger pieces.

Anyway, it's my opinion that a good finisher (I'm not one) can achieve his desired results in any number of ways, so if Minwax is what you've got, it might work.  Give it a try on a test piece.

[Stophel]

... I envy you guys down south that have all the good stuff available to you. It is neer impossible to find any traditonal black powder anything here.

It has gotten very difficult to find things here too....virtually nothing I want is available locally (and I don't just mean gun stuff...).  I have to order almost everything over the internet...and I often have had to search quite a bit to find it even then.

[bgf]

Basically,  it works and looks like the Minwax Polyshades (stain and polyurethane).   You just brush on coat after coat until you get the color you want.   It dries in seconds.   Now, I have an exciting new toy to play with.

Mark,
I just saw your reference to Minwax Polyshades.  That is a product that I found useless when applied according to directions, but when thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits (contrary to the directions and used as a wiping varnish over stain, it is one of my favorite things.  I got the idea of using it from an article by Jack Brooks about a "red" rifle (he used tinted poly, if I remember correctly), and had need of something similar to even out tone and add depth.  Rather than trying to figure out where and how to find the proper toner tints, I used a quart of "Bombay Mohagony" I had on hand, knowing that I had no other use for it .  It worked beyond expectations -- somehow the color in the poly reduces the "plastic" look when building a film, and if used within reason, it won't obscure figure objectionably.  Alternately, you can put it on until the piece turns "black" or whatever color is predominant in the stain:).  When thinned 50/50, it dries enough to recoat in little more than an hour under good conditions.  Since you have some acquaintance with Polyshades, I thought you might be interested.  If you have used it for anything, I would also be interested in hearing about it, but  ince polyurethane is apparently a sin, I'll understand if you don't want to talk about it as well.

[omark]

"You can use tar dissolved in turpentine"
Mark,

That is the first time I have seen any mention of this stain.  Two or three years ago, I reworked a little 40 cal I picked up on a trade.  I don't want to get into any discussions about messing with someone elses work.  The builder had done a good job on the metalwork and the inletting was, for the most part, quite good, but he had left way too much wood on it.  It had a dark finish with very good contrast and the finish went very deep into the wood - especially the curl.

I spent months experimenting with every concoction I could think of to match that stain.  You name it and I bet I brewed it!  Finally, in desperation I dissolved tar in some turpentine - a lot of tar to be exact - and tried it.  Voila, a perfect match.

I have to say, I think this is probably the nicest dark finish I have ever seen.  I wish I had kept notes.  I believe I applied AF and then the stain.  I believe final finish was Linspeed, but may have been straight boiled linseed.  Thanks to my lack of foresight and old @$#% memory, I will have to do some experimenting the next time I want to use it.  The curl is almost black, but the lighter areas are what really stand out.  They appear almost translucent and have a depth to them I can't recall ever seeing before.

And here I thought I had rediscovered some secret or long-forgotten recipe!  I would encourage anyone who wants a dark finish on curly maple to give this recipe a try.

Laurie

come to think of it, i used to know a guy that used asphalt dissolved in BLO. they were some of the most beautiful stocks i have ever seen. 

[Mark Elliott]

To give credit where credit is due.  The tar in turpentine came from Gary Brumfield.  I have never used it myself.   It is a little lighter than I generally like, but I might use it one day.

Mark E.

[stubshaft]

+1 - On Leather shoe dye.  I've used that and if you find it too dark you can thin it with denatured alcohol.

[Duane Harshaw]

I bought some from TOTW,no problem.r