Richards 10 gauge SXS BL/powder proof marks

[Muzzlesmoke]

What I'm looking for is Belgian/ English proof marks from 1850's.  Anyone know where I can find proof marks.
Trying to find out more about this shotgun.  I believe the shot gun is a knock off Westley Richards.   

Thanks ahead of time,
Muzzlesmoke

[JV Puleo]

The proof marks are under the barrels. If you post a picture of them we can tell you what they are. Almost certainly either Belgian or Birmingham but Richards was a Birmingham maker and should have B'ham marks. By the percussion era nearly all British shotguns, regardless of who "made" them had barrels made in the B'ham trade.

[490roundball]

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

mostly later one, but you can see the national styles

[Jerry V Lape]

Take this question over to Doublegunshop.com where the major knowledge sources for this question reside.  But as a general information there are three Richards shotguns typically encountered.  First is Westley Richards who's name is always spelled out on the gun and is a first rate builder of quality doubleguns.  Second is W. Richards an English maker from Birmingham who made  mid to almost upper level guns.  Then there is W. Richards, a cheapo Belgium maker of hardware store quality guns which were marginal when new and should now only be of interest to the decorators for Cracker Barrel restaurents.  The later will have Belgium proof marks.  They were worth about $3 new when Westley and the other English maker's guns were worth $100+.   

[beleg2]

Hi,
Please let me make a little correction:
Westley Richard - Birmingham.
W Richards - Liverpool.

Thanks
Martin

[smokinbuck]

Jerry,
Besides possibly very inferior workmanship, how can one tell the difference between the two "W.Richards"? I have a W.Richards double in 16Ga with 36" barrels, checkering and very nice architecture that I plan to shoot. I have had it checked and it appears to be in good sound condition. I will pull the barrels and check the proof marks. HAve pilled the barrels off this gun and found: Liege proof mark (ELG in and oval), initials "LJM" in several places, a shield with a star over it, #895 on the rib and breach, and a very fanciful #3 made with double lines in several places. These are all under the barrel. Inside the lock plates are th initials "JA". That's it.
Mark

[Muzzlesmoke]

Thanks for all the information.  Rick thanks for the proof marks.  From them I found out what proof mark I have.  On the second page of the British proof marks.  Five down from top the is proof mark is what I have on my gun.  The fifth line starts, 1868-1925 and it is a Birmingham mark.  I have pictures and I will post them later.  Also on the bottom of the barrel and inside of the lock, WR.

Thanks for the help,
Muzzlesmoke