J Kunz rifle

[kloudred]

I have a black powder gun I am trying to identify.  It has a double barrel with a swivel breech.  It has
J Kunz on one side and Philad on the other side.    It appears old in fairly good condition.  the butt has a little box built in and a sun star like inlay.  Don't know how to load picture.

[smshea]

There is a Tutorial on loading Pictures or If you email them to a moderator , I'm sure they will help. Sounds like you have a Philadelphia Kuntz Swivel gun on your hands! Would love to see It. 

[Larry Luck]

Here are some photos from kloudred:















Larry Luck

[smshea]

Very Very Nice!!! Looks in Great Shape. Tell us more, How long have you had it etc.

[Tanselman]

You have a very nice Jacob Kuntz "wender" or swivel barrel rifle. Great original condition, and interesting because it appears to be original percussion with a full patchbox. Jacob Kuntz (1780-1876) is known for his fine engraving, and overall artistic style of building guns. He worked in Philadelphia for about the years 1810 or 1811, to 1875, and was one of Philadephia's most prominent gunmakers, known for his high quality. The modified back action lock plate style and oval cheekpiece might indicate a mid-to-late 1830s date for this rifle, possibly a few years later. It's a very nice gun, in appealing condion to collectors since it hasn't been worked on or restored in recent history. I really enjoy the extensive engraving on this gun, on the patchbox, cheekpiece inlay, lock plates, hammer, breech block, below the nipple and "snail," and all in Kuntz' style. I also noticed both barrels have adjustable rear sights, another feature not always present on this type rifle. It's a fine piece, worthy of being well cared for. It looks like it might have had a sling on it at one time, based on the mark on the rib between the barrels 4 or 5 inches behind the muzzle. Any chance you can add a picture of the toe, the flat lower edge on the bottom of the butt, to see if it has a fancy toe plate, and if it ever had a sling attachment? Shelby Gallien

[kloudred]

Thank you Shelby for your very explicit input.  Thats more than I have found out in recent months.  My wife's great grandfather owned this gun which was passed down to her grandfather, father and then to us.  Don't know any dates, but assuming a period of 1900 - 1942.  Having an acquaintance on ALR load the pictures of the "toe" for you.  Don't see any place that there could have been a "sling."

[Larry Luck]

Additional photos:

[Don Getz]

Neat gun, even for that later period.   Did anyone else look at the front sights?    Did someone take these off at some time
and turn them around, they're just not on there correctly...........Don

[Jim Kibler]

Neat gun, even for that later period.   Did anyone else look at the front sights?    Did someone take these off at some time
and turn them around, they're just not on there correctly...........Don

I'll tell you, I've seen enough examples of the sights in this configuration that I'm starting to believe that some were meant to be that way.  I can't remember where i saw it, but not too awful long ago I saw one in this congiguraion that was staked in the barrel.  That is there was no dovetail base.  Seems odd, but maybe some had  different ideas.

On another note, the stock appears to be European Walnut to my eye.  It seems I've seen photographs of a couple other later Kunz's that looked like Euro walnut as well.  Certainly a neat gun in great condition.

[Mike Brooks]

Ain't it cool when this sort of stuff pops up out of no where? The engraving is exceptional, even for a Philadelphia gun.

[kloudred]

To Don..... This is the way we got this gun.  Don't know if sights are correct or not.  To our knowledge, there have been no mods to this gun at all.

[Walt S]

In the book Steel Canvas, there is a picture of a J. Kunz swivel breech rifle. It is only half of the rifle, you can not see the sights. The only thing the book said about the rifle is "More sophisticated percussion swivel breech rifle by J Kunz, Philadelphia: barrels part round, part octagonal, 36 inches; select walnut with scarce black-streaked grain; c 1835-45".  I took pictures of the picture that is in the book, only for the people that do not have this book. I will try to post them. If you look at the patch boxes, you can see that they are the same but at the same time Kunz changed parts of the boxes to make them different. The lock is the same but the engraving is different. Does any one think the wood from both rifles could have come from the same tree?

Kloudred, if you every take the lock off this rifle, could you post pictures of the inside of the lock. I like Kunz work, but without people posting more pictures we would never see some of these rifle.






Ws

[Stan]

Well Kloudred the BIG question is , is the Kunz for sale? I would love to give it a home. Stan

[Don Getz]

Kloudred...no matter how the sights are on there, it's still one heck of a nice gun.   Nice to able to compare it to that other
one done in english walnut, fantastic engraving...........Don

[smylee grouch]

We know two things for shure, Mr. Kuntz was indeed a master and you or your family are indeed fortunate to have such a nice piece. Congrats.      Gary

[kloudred]

With regard to Stan's question.  I would like to say yes.... HOWEVER, Wife, who is daughter to whom gun was given, AT THIS TIME sez....NO!  BUTT, I will keep your query in mind if something different comes up.

This is only one of about seven or eight other guns that have been handed down to us.  I have a model 1892 Winchester 25-20 (Octagonal Barrel), A savage rifle which I have not been able to identify what model it is yet, some old bouble barrell shotguns, Two old.. looks like black powder hand guns, and a few others.  Even a cross bow that my father in law made.

[Stan]

Thanks for the reply Kloudred! I am a serious collector. Regards Stan