Author Topic: Looking for builder information, original halfstock  (Read 10772 times)

Offline Curtis

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Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« on: May 19, 2010, 07:11:59 PM »
I'm posting these pictures for an acquantance of mine.... he is looking for any possible info on the rifle.
 "The rifle is signed Oblinger and Piqua O. slanted across the barrel. The lock is signed J. Goulcher with an engraving of a hunter shooting a duck. The barrel is signed J. H. Johnston.  It is a half stock percussion. The barrel is forty inches long, It shoots 30 grains of 3f with a .333 ball and a .026 patch.  At the muzzle it goes from octagon to round and there are two indentations on the barrel a few inches from the muzzle. I was told that this was for a bullet starter so the rifle may have been made to shoot bullets rather then PRB. The groves are very skinney and deep compared to the lands."

He says the rifle out shoots his ability.















Thanks!
Curtis Allinson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

jwh1947

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2010, 08:44:20 PM »
J. (John) H. Johnson was a Waynesboro, PA builder (1811-1889).  His son J. H. (James Hampton worked with his dad there until around the Civil War, then moved to Pittsburgh where he and later his sons ran The Great Western Gun Works.  They worked late, I believe until about 1900.  Your rifle looks to me to be a Pittsburgh (later) product.  Hope this helps. 

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2010, 09:14:12 PM »
Sounds like Wayne nailed it. Someone in Ohio added their two cents worth and the result is a  really fine half stocked rifle. Thank you for showing it to us. A classic Ohio gun.
Dick

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2010, 09:36:37 PM »
The top flat of the barrel is marked Oblinger in one line and Piqua O in another line. These signature lines are on a diagonal.
Thanks again Curtis for posting the pictures for me.

jwh1947

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2010, 10:20:04 PM »
Sellers lists three Oblingers in Piqua, OH, two (David and David Jr.) working up to 1916, the latter joining dad in 1890.  At this period, I'd bet that one of them bought Johnson barrels and Golcher locks right from Johnson's Pittsburgh shop and built the rifles in Ohio.  Sort of like us buying nice barrels from Getz and taking them home and building rifles around them. 

May I digress (as usual) with a bit of history, as I interpret it.  Barrel making was one of the first specializations of a trade here America.  Gunsmiths in Lancaster, for instance, saw the value of having a cartel support a barrel mill.  In York, study the history of Philip Heckert.  He ran a mill that supplied barrels not only to his shop but for most of the noted early York makers and those men had a financial interest in Heckert's mill.  When it burned to the ground, they needed to reorganize their supply line.  For PA "Dutch" trivia enthusiasts, I tell you that the Wyomissing Creek, outside of Reading, ran so dirty that the PA German locals referred to it as der schmutz deich...the dirty ditch.  A primary causal factor of the pollution were the many gun boring mills located there.  Coal activities upstream at a later date only added to the filth; the gun barrel mills were there first.  Barrel makers have been supplying PA  gunsmiths for a long, long time. 

 Gotta' run, one of the apprentices needs assistance.  I've never been a boss before, and just figured out that when they are simply standing around and eating donuts that it is costing me money. 

Offline nord

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 12:26:08 AM »
The following transmitted to me via Email...

"The BARREL may have been made by Johnston or been recycled. But
there were several men by name of Oblinger in Miami Co OH
Charles
Charles M
David, Jr
John
John W
Solomon
Walter W
William

And I can assure you no matter what anyone thinks the gun is an Oblinger!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I know next to nothing about Ohio makers I'll put this forth without comment.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

jwh1947

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 01:27:03 AM »
I interpret your comment to mean that the barrel could have either been recycled from a rifle originally built by Johnson or bought by an Oblinger from Johnson as a "raw" barrel  and built into a rifle by him.  I think we are singing in the same choir.

Offline Stan

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 03:03:51 AM »
The mate to this rifle will be sold at Conestoga auction on June 5. 

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 01:46:29 PM »
Stan
What is the location of that auction?
Thanks Chuck

Offline Stan

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2010, 05:25:41 AM »
http://www.conestogaauction.com/auctions/

What do you think the chances are  that "Oblinger"was the owner? ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 05:29:30 AM by Stan »

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2010, 09:54:32 AM »
I think we need to be careful with the e-mail that Nord received and posted. Since we do not know who sent the e-mail, we have no way to judge the person's knowledge or credability on making such an "absolute" determination in his response.  He offers no comments, reasoning or other justification for why the gun is an Oblinger instead of a J. H. Johnston. Both names are on the gun, and the gun looks very much like the work of J. H. Johnston.  When two names are present on a gun, a feasible explanation for it (offered in the latest KRA Bulletin with some facts to back it up) is that the second name can at times be a second gunsmith who repaired the gun sometime after it was made.

There is only one Oblinger rifle illustrated in the lengthy series of "Oho Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen." The gun is a David Oblinger half-stocked rifle (p. 216, Vol. III). The butt plates are similar, and both guns have high combs, but beyond that, there are more differences in the guards, triggers, style/shape of side facings,  etc. There may be a few years difference between the guns, but not enough to justify all the differences. I would tend to lean toward this rifle being the work of J. H. Johnston, rather than an Oblinger product, particularly with the lug dimple/mark on the side of the barrel a few inches behind the muzzle, and think perhaps the gun was repaired later in Ohio by an Oblinger. Another possibility, perhaps remote, is that one of the Oblingers sold "imported" guns and/or Pennsylvania guns in his shop that he restamped before selling.  

Nord, if you can provide us with the name of the responder, or any valid reason for why his statement should be sufficient to accept the gun as an Oblinger without further support or justification, please let us know. Perhaps the gun really is an Oblinger, but it sure looks like a J. H. Johnston, and differs in some respects from the pictured Oblinger rifle of about the same time period. Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 10:00:14 AM by Tanselman »

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2010, 02:28:19 PM »
I should have stated that the name J H Johnston is stamped on the underside of the barrel not on the top.
I hope this helps .

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 04:56:10 AM »
Stan
I was hoping you could tell me where the Auction was this weekend, maybe I could buy the mate.
Thanks

Offline Curt J

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2010, 06:24:10 AM »
J H JOHNSTON barrels are almost as common as Remington.  I've seen all styles of rifles with barrels so marked, nearly alway on the underside.  My best guess is that it is not a J H JOHNSTON rifle.

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 01:40:15 PM »
I now believe that the rifle was built by one of the Oblinger gunsmiths in Piqua Ohio.`

Offline nord

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2010, 03:09:48 PM »
Shelby -

I'm really unsure of how to satisfy your request as I don't think my friend wishes to be named. Would you accept the info if I assured you that he's both an author and a noted authority on the long rifle?

Sorry not to be more direct, but I'm not in a comfortable position on this one.

Thanks,

B
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 07:33:48 PM »
Nord
Thank you very much for that information, I will accept what your expert has to say and please thank him for me.

Offline Stan

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2010, 11:18:21 PM »
Chuckpa ! I already posted the link. Stan

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2010, 12:48:57 AM »
Thanks Stan
I didn't see that.

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 03:52:54 AM »
I took the rifle out to the range today and bench rested it at 35yards the accuracy is truly amazing to me, I fired a four shot ragged one hole group. I was also told that because of the very thin groves that the gun could be fired for a very long time with out cleaning. Why don't they make barrels like that today?

jwh1947

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 06:02:57 PM »
The appearance of the Johnston name on the underside of the barrel is a significant point.  That moves me away from Johnston being the maker and suggests building by one of the Ohio boys.  Apparently, Great Western wholesaled a lot of raw parts, and this very well could be the result of that part of the business. 

chuckpa

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 03:34:48 AM »
Nord
If you are going to be at Dixon's Gun Makers Fair I would like to meet and if your expert is there and it would be ok with I could bring the rifle for him to look at.

Offline nord

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Re: Looking for builder information, original halfstock
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2010, 04:22:09 AM »
Chuck -

Over 200 miles for me to get there so I doubt I'll be able to make it.

Contact me at <nordata@earthlink.net> or call 888 330-9610 and I'll happily share what I know.

B
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.