muzzle coning

[bs2]

More thoughts on cone design [lathe work]:

Make a pilot, [live or solid] , 2"s long,  then a tapered cone .400-.600.

The tapered cone then becomes a tapered Gun Drill. Two sides radius, with opposite die the cutter.

I have made small carbide gun drills that work slick on hardened steel, so a tapered one made from drill rod and hardened should work too.

Just like Davec2s bottom picture, only with only 90 degrees removed, and a flat opposite the cutting edge.

[Hoot AL]

This is a coning tool I use. I wrap emery paper on the taper and on the end I mount the various spacers which match the caliber of the rifle I am coning. Works great.

http://

Made a walnut case to store it in.

Hoot Al

[Lon Baugh]

How much taper is there to the tool? It seems like it would be a slight amount, maybe .10" in 3 inches?   LB

[Brian Jordan]

How much taper is there to the tool? It seems like it would be a slight amount, maybe .10" in 3 inches?   LB

I am querious what the taper is to these coning tools also?

[Acer Saccharum]

The longer the taper, the easier it is to load, and the worse your gun is going to shoot. I can see the advantage in the field for a coned muzzle. But on the target range, the coned muzzle is death to tight groups.

This is only opinion, so pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 I like a crown where the ball and patch combo is just flush with the end of the barrel when pressed in by thumb. Yes, I still use a starter to get the ball down. But this gun I use on the range, not in the woods. On a hunt gun, I'd go for fast loading with a minimum of tools.

[Artificer]

Thanks Acer.  

I always wondered about how a long cone would affect target accuracy.  Do you think the longer length cone allows the cone to be more out of line with the center of the bore?  

Gus

[Jim Filipski]

The longer the taper, the easier it is to load, and the worse your gun is going to shoot. I can see the advantage in the field for a coned muzzle. But on the target range, the coned muzzle is death to tight groups.

I have never seen a properly done "long coned" barrel effect accuracy even off the bench ( round ball). This holds true for all my guns. On one of my .54 cals it even tightened up the groups!  I would not use it however for any elongated projectile shooting( what ever that is)
Jim

[Artificer]

I don't mean to start a heated discussion and wanted to point that out right away.

I have no experience with long cone muzzles on muzzleloaders, even on all the original rifles I've worked on for the U.S. International Muzzle Loading Team and members of foreign teams at the two World Championships I attended. 

My experience with barrel crowns is mostlyy in modern rifles and that includes the highest levels of NM competition.  On THE Marine Corps Rifle Team, we used to "touch up the crown" about every 400 to 600 rounds to ensure the best accuracy in NM Garands and M14's.  We touched up the crown every time we did an inspection on the M40A1 sniper rifles as well. 

"Touching up the crown" means we cut just enough to ensure the crown is uniform, smooth and just barely cuts into every land in the bore.  I have a twelve flute, Carbide barrel crowning cutter made by Severence.   I use it with different bore guides to ensure the cutter is cutting in agreement with the bore.  I've done it on both round ball guns and minie' ball rifles. 

On Muzzleloading rifles, I touch up the crown on my rifles every year at the end of shooting season to ensure it will be good the next time I use it.   I've touched up or even cut the crown deeper on other muzzle loading rifles where the crown was off center.  If the crown is off center or if the ends of the lands and grooves are not uniform, recutting the crown to center will improve the barrel's accuracy no matter if it is modern or muzzleloader. 

So could the answer be if the long crown was not done correctly that it would decrease accuracy?

[Longknife]

I would say that if any crown (or cone)was not done correctly it would definately affect accuracy. I see no reason to recut the crown except when you have accuracy issues....Ed

[Brian Jordan]

If I'm not mistaken "crowning" & "coning" are two different operations all together.

[Artificer]

If I'm not mistaken "crowning" & "coning" are two different operations all together.

Indeed they can be, though a "coning" tool can be made to do both operations at the same time. 

[Don Getz]

I mentioned this once before about the first gun I built.  It had a 7/8" straight Douglas barrel in 45 cal.   I did not have a
countersink, or anything to crown the muzzle.  For those of you that remember the old Douglas barrels, they had some
info. stamped on the muzzle end, cal., etc., so you had to cut them off.  I did that, squared it up with a file, then carefully
crowned the barrel with needlel files.   I rounded the lands and grooves by hand, each one separately, but I am sure they
were not exactly the same.   The gun shot real well, won a lot of stuff with it........so much for that "perfect" muzzle...
Don

[Roger Fisher]

I'd call it champhering or at least crowning..... A machinist I'm not so, I champher the muzzle with a hand brace with a ball cutter attached.   Barrel mounted vertically in bench vise.   Kinda walk 'around' the job while working the brace.  Then I use a brass ball with valve grinding compound same way.  Then use 600 emory paper on same brass ball to smooth her up.  

My ol tyme Getz 15/16 .45 has had the brass ball and compound treatment 2 times maybe 3 and I polished her about twice.  (not sure its a long time)  She shoots if I do my part. I try her out once and a while.......

Now, I notice that the reference was to coning which I do not do, sorry I got off on a tangent.   All keyed up about shooting the Getz/Singer chunk shoot this Saturday......