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Author Topic: ID on the American half-stock longrifle  (Read 5832 times)

Dmitry

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ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« on: August 20, 2010, 05:24:52 AM »
Hello,
I perused my copy of Kaufman's book, bu didn't find the exact pattern of the patch-box decoration, or else I missed it. Your help in dating this piece is greatly appreciated. It's a heavy gun, at 13.5 lbs. The lock plate is marked R.S.CLARK EXTRA. I don't see any other markings.
Thanks!





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Arnie Dowd

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 07:05:47 AM »
Although it is certainly not enough to make an assumption of an ID it is very interesting to note that the patchbox IS identical to one on a "John Krider" double-
barrel Plains Rifle I have except my gun is completely iron-mounted, with both the barrels being a true .52 rifled beside a .54 smooth bore.  Mine is marked Krider on both back-action locks and Philadelphia on the top rib.  My "Krider" is a heavy, short rifle meant to be carried on a horse or in a wagon.  It also has a checkered wrist and the same "beaver-tail: style cheek piece.
Your rifle appears to have two barrel keys ?  What caliber is it ?  It is not impossible that Krider made your rifle for a dealer ?  Krider made many guns intended for the Western trade and a great many were shipped West to dealers.
I can find no reference to the name on your lock either.  Perhaps Jim W. (Scooter) has a reference.  Good Luck - It looks like a nice Plains type rifle.
Arnie Dowd
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Dmitry

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 03:41:34 PM »
I just googled R.S.CLARK EXTRA and came up with this -
http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f458.html

The barrel on my gun is 37.5" long, and the caliber is .5".
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Offline Longknife

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 04:32:14 PM »
The lock apears to be converted from flint....possibly converted when the gun was made in the percussion period...?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 04:35:30 PM by Longknife »
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Ed Hamberg

Arnie Dowd

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 05:37:51 PM »
I agree with Longknife re the lock perhaps originally being flint and, if so and assuming this lock is original to the gun (there is a fair amou of space around
it , especially in the front;  but considering it has been broken through the wrist
at some point the repairs might account for this) I would find it very hard to believe that it came out of the Krider shop as he would not have used a "used" lock.  The
patchbox on both rifles could be a commercially made piece available in either brass or iron.  Krider by this time would have been open to using commercially made hardware.  Your google sure turned up a reference to one incredible Caswell pistol at a pretty incredible price !
Arnie
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Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 06:39:24 PM »
Interesting to note that the Krider lock appears on a Caswell pistol. Caswell worked in New York and features of your rifle , the cheek rest , suggests a New York style.
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Dmitry

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 03:18:50 AM »
Gentlemen, I'm even more confused now. Is this a New York rifle or a Pennsylvania rifle? How would you date it?
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Offline nord

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 03:58:36 AM »
Dmitry -

"Pennsylvania" or "Kentucky" is a term for a kind of rifle, not by any means the location of its origin. Generally we think of the long rifle as having certain characteristics... The long barrel, the patchbox or grease hole, a full length stock, etc. If studied closely one will soon begin to see regional traits imbued on these pieces.

NY long rifles from my area are no different from  Pennsylvania rifles, except for a state border. They're in the main Upper Susquehanna type rifles. Move to the center line of the Fingerlakes and rifles take on traits associated more with the Mohawk Valley. Your gun tends to bear some of the traits we associate with an area roughly from Albany west to Buffalo and on into Ohio and even Michigan. Stock architecture, trigger guard, heavy barrel, etc.

Don't worry. The rifle is still part of the Kentucky/Pennsylvania tradition.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 04:00:44 AM by nord »
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Offline Tanselman

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Re: ID on the American half-stock longrifle
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2010, 06:41:44 AM »
I have seen the same box on New York rifles, and I am not sure the box lid engraving is of the quality that came out of the Krider shop.  The two barrel wedges may have different histories, since their escutchons are different shapes. Perhaps the front wedge location is the original one, and when the barrel was cut and pulled back, the rear wedge position was created to catch the moved barrel loop. If the barrel were removed, it would be interesting to know if both wedge locations are active, or only the rear one. Despite some rough usage, the gun is a well-made piece. I would particularly like to see a better picture of the eagle inlay in the cheekpiece... it appears to be engraved, and a better than average inlay with the scalloped lower edges on its wings.  Shelby Gallien
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