TKS Steve - good pics of some nice rifles. I won't be shooting an 8 bore, let along a 4. One of the guys at Heffley Creek Rondy had an original 8 bore fowler (Bland I think-not sure) - about 8 pounds for light loads - he was shooting a couple ounces of shot and only 180gr. powder. Seemed to pattern well. It hammered him pretty good just the same.