Another barrel cleaning thread

[eagle24]

Took my .50 to the range yesterday.  Like I always do, I ran a patch through it with a cleaner that I use for wiping at the range (simple green & alchohol mixed 50/50).  Rust!  Not real dark red, but significant rust on the patch.  I ran 4 or 5 patches before I got one fairly clean and then commenced shooting.  When I got home, I decided to pull the barrel from the stock to clean.  I usually draw water through using one of the c-clamp gadgets with the rubber tube.  I filled a bucket with cold soapy water and started my cleaning using a jag and flannel patches.  After about an hour and no telling how many patches, I was still getting a greenish yellow color on my patches and couldn't return a clean patch to say I was done.  I removed the breech plug and went at it some more.  Finally, I ran several patches with WD-40 and left it on my bench with the breech plug out and gave up for the night.  After the "rust" incident at the range, I decided that I better check my .32 which I haven't shot in a couple of weeks.  Thank goodness, it was clean as a whistle with no rust.  One more thing on the .50 barrel.  This rifle was built to look aged and there are a couple of spots on the outside of the barrel that will nearly rust before your eyes.  I have a feeling the builder used a browning solution and it is not completely neutralized.  I'm going to neutralize it with some ammonia before I put it back in the stock.  I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the trouble I'm having with rust in the bore?  The bore looks bright and clean, but I can't get it too the point that I can run a patch through and have it come out clean, or at least I haven't yet.  Accuracy is really good from the barrel and I sure want to keep it that way.  Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong, or what I need to do?

[Roger Fisher]

First off I'm wondering if you may have forgotten to dry that bore and/ forgot to oil said bore after cleaning her and she was rusting away til your next trip to the range    This would be my thought since you probably used the same oil etc in that .32 that stayed pristine?

I know a certain old guy that was cleaning 2 rifles and a smoothy the same evening and pulled the above mistake.  He found dark brown after 2 days!!!

[eagle24]

First off I'm wondering if you may have forgotten to dry that bore and/ forgot to oil said bore after cleaning her and she was rusting away til your next trip to the range    This would be my thought since you probably used the same oil etc in that .32 that stayed pristine?

I don't think that is the case, but anything is possible.  I can't imagine that I didn't go straight to dry patches and then oil before I put it up.  Right now, I'm most concerned that I can't get a clean patch out of her.  It acts like it is flash rusting, but I am using cold soapy water.  When I finally gave up and ran a couple of oil patches through last night they came out with dark gray on them like there was still powder fouling in the barrel.

[Roger Fisher]

First off I'm wondering if you may have forgotten to dry that bore and/ forgot to oil said bore after cleaning her and she was rusting away til your next trip to the range    This would be my thought since you probably used the same oil etc in that .32 that stayed pristine?

I don't think that is the case, but anything is possible.  I can't imagine that I didn't go straight to dry patches and then oil before I put it up.  Right now, I'm most concerned that I can't get a clean patch out of her.  It acts like it is flash rusting, but I am using cold soapy water.  When I finally gave up and ran a couple of oil patches through last night they came out with dark gray on them like there was still powder fouling in the barrel.

A little gray is really no biggee; but to get rid of that I would suggest 4/0 wool or scotchbrite pad material wrapped tight on the cleaning jag and run that (tight) thru her 15 or twenty trips then clean her and oil.  I use ballistol in the bore (not the lock) with no problems!   I had old 4-d 40 years ago and the bore rusted under the @!*% oil.  Don't trust it ever since.  The guys claim it has more drier in it now and it's okay.  I dunno

Let us know how it works out!

[Daryl]

I am at a  loss at to why you can't get her clean, Ghall - I don't use soap - just cold water and have no difficulty getting the bore clean. Cleaning only uses one patch when flushing water in an out, barrel off or with the C-clamp thinkie. I run 3 to 5 patches down it after cleaning chaning them until the last patch drags due to a dry bore.  The patches for cleaning and drying are all used on a jag and are quite tight fitting.  After drying, I heavily spray WD40 down the tube & it sprays out the vent (or nipple seat) when I run the oiling patch up and down the bore.  I keep pumping until it stops spraying.  When cleaning or oiling with the barrel on the stock, I have a paper towel wadded in the lock mortice to prevent water or oil from soaking the wood.  Whe pumping the water up and down the bore (barrel on the stock), I wrap a towel around the muzzel and forend as water spews out to muzzle as the rod is lifted amnd drawing water into the bore.  I have never used wet patches for cleaning only as it's almost impossible to clean a bore that way without using copious amounts of patches - ridiculous in my opinion. The only way to clean a bore well, is to pull water into the bore, then flush it out the vent or nipple seat - in-out, in-out, in-out, - probably 20 or more times AFTER the water is being pulled all the way up to the muzzle through the vent or nipple seat. The bore will then be clean and ready to dry.  As I've said before, this rarely takes more than 4 patches to get completely dry. The spraying of a LOT of WD40 into the bore, then flushing that out the vent seems to get rid of any vestages of water or moisture left in the bore or breech area.  Any patch run into the bore after that comes out pefectly clean - no marks from dirt at all and only the faint impressions in the cloth of the rifling.  If I lived in a humid area, I'd then re-dry the bore with a couple patches to pull out the WD40, then use a better rust preventer. Here, or when I lived at the coast, that isn't/wasn't necessary.

[eagle24]

Daryl,
You basically clean the same way I do except I use a little soap.  Last night, rather than using the c-clamp gizmo I pulled the barrel from the stock and submerged the breech end in the bucket of soapy water and went to pumping.  Like you, I often push down hard enough to get water above the patch and it spews from the muzzle when I draw the patch out.  Also, like you, I'm at a loss.  It's pretty simple really, but I can't get a patch out that doesn't have a yellow/orange/green stain on it.  I have even removed the breech plug and made about 20 passes with a bronze bore brush.  The bore looks bright and shiny, but indoubtably the rifling grooves are still not clean.  I ran several oily (real oily) patches before I quit last night.  A few hours ago, I was home for lunch and ran a patch through and still got 4 distinct orange rust marks on the patch.  It's bugging the stew out of me.

[eagle24]

Here's a possibility I came up with.  This is a newly built barn rifle that the builder put an "aged" finish on.  The barrel and lock were browned and I noticed there were several spots that kept rusting after I had cleaned and oiled on the outside of the barrel and on the lock.  This lead me to believe that the browning solution had not been completely neutralized.  I used ammonia and water to neutralize and they seem to be fine now.  I'm wondering if some browning solution got into the bore.  Maybe it was neutralized on the lands, but not in the grooves.  I was thinking about mixing some ammonia and water and running some patches through the bore, then cleaning thoroughly with water, drying, and oiling.  Would it be ok to put some ammonia in the bore?

[Daryl]

I agree that it must be something still working on the bore.  Amonia, I haven't tried, but baking soda, heavy solution flushed and scrubbed might work.  I use comet cleanser on a toothbrush for degreazing new moulds and it doesnt' harm them in the slightest. It may have a 'stopping' action on whatever is working inside your bore.  I would use it then really flush the bore again and clean it well, dry and re-oil.  I really have a lot of faith in the 'water displacing' lubes prior to a final oiling. I only use a final oil after the WD40 if I'm going to put a gun away and not use it in the next year or so.

: Before going to Hefley, were I knew I'd probably not take the barrel off for cleaning, I heavily coated the underside fo the barrel with a moly grease to prevent any spalshing of dribbling water from rusting the undersize. It's done a good job.

[longcruise]

Ghall, what kind of lube are you using.  Had that problem with lube that contained murphy's oil soap and am suspecting that hoppes#9 solvent might be doing the same thing.

[eagle24]

Mike,
I'm using one of the many "moose milk" formulas for a range lube.  It doesn't have any Murphy's Oil Soap in this one.  Water, NAPA Cutting Oil, can't remember what else off top of my head.  For hunting I will use mink oil.

[eagle24]

Well, I finally got my cussed barrel clean without using any abrasives in the bore.  Went through a bunch of patches doing it, but it's clean and rust free.  I just hope I don't go through this again next time I shoot it.  I never got any response to my question of using ammonia in the bore, so I went ahead and ran some patches soaked in ammonia and water just in case there was any browning solution in the bore that wasn't neutralized.  I did use some thin ticking I had for a tight cleaning patch and ran 20 or so of them flooded with WD-40.  When I finally got her clean, I used a heavier gun oil in the bore instead of the WD-40.  This may be one of those barrels with more porous steel in it that just doesn't want to come clean as easy.

[Daryl]

Could be the steel, GHall - or something to do with your patch lube.  I've dropped back to using spit for most of my target shooting.  I've found there is a big different in accuracy loads betwen spit and LHV.  The oily type needs a lot more powder. I'm kinda skimping on the last 3 bottles of Lehigh I've got hidden somewhere in the shop for hunting use.

[Gene Carrell]

Next time, try some RB17 to clean your bore. It will remove any rust (and browning) very quickly without touching the steel. I get from RB's Treasures in Texas. They have a website.

[Clark Badgett]

This is my trade secret, it works best for me but YMMV. Get some clean lard from the grocery and put a very light coat on the bore, much like you would a cast iron fry pan, and then make up some patches with the lard as well. Go shoot the dickens outta the rifle, until it is too hot to handle comfortably. When you get home clean the rifle with water until the patch comes out mostly clean and then relube the bore with olive oil or other natural non-petroleum grease/oil. Just remember to clean out any excess oil/grease before you shoot the next time. My old '53 Enfield used to rust constantly until I figured this out, after it mostly rust free.

[George F.]

I was wondering, since black powder is sort of corrpsive would it help to run a few patches down with some baking soda to nuetralize the residue?...just a thought,  ...Geo.

[Dphariss]

If the bore is still a little damp WD-40 will not stop it rusting even though it will drive off the water. If I use wd-40 to dry the bore I always wipe most of it out then does it with G-96 then stand it muzzle down over night. Be supprized what comes out of a "clean" bore when this is done.
I have a pair of Colerains with round bottom rifling that really don't like to come clean. But I have found that the soft steels are harder to clean than alloy steels are. But your mileage may vary.

I think when the "oil" evaporates from WD-40 what is left is basically paraffin.

Dan

[Clark Badgett]

since black powder is sort of corrpsive

I'm not totally sure BP fouling is all that corrosive. From what I've been able to find the fouling is more hyrdoscopic (?) as sucks in moisture that reacts with the steel and oxidizes. I've actually oiled a rifle barrel that was fouled with BP residue and sinse the oil "suspended" the fouling it didn't rust. Forgot to clean that rifle for about 3 weeks.

[William Worth]

I gather that BP fouling itself is generally mildly corrosive, but the BP fouling is never the only thing present in a fired bore.  Condensation, residue from whatever else has been stuck down the bore, the metallurgy of the barrel steel, the chemistry of that batch of powder, all add up to never assume that it won't begin the corrosion process, and usually immediatly.

[keweenaw]

The by products of the combustion will include various combinations of sulfur and oxygen in ionic form.  Dry they don't do much but they are hydroscopic and when combined with water produce mild acidity in the barrel which will accelerate the rusting.

Tom

[Dphariss]

I was wondering, since black powder is sort of corrpsive would it help to run a few patches down with some baking soda to nuetralize the residue?...just a thought,  ...Geo.

This would work if the fouling was acid. Its not. Its easier to just clean it.

Dan