bolt in ramrod channel

[swifty6]

In building a 36 caliber mountain rifle,The forward lock bolt is blocking the ramrod . I am aware that some just put in a cut off screw from side plate to the lock. I do not feel comfortable with that option. If a second bolt wasn't needed they would not have put one there. Is there a way to bend the bolt on a jig so the ramrod would pass through? Is there a better option? The ramrod is 5/16.
My present solution is to shorten the ramrod and have a brass extension with a knurled handle. This is a hunting rifle so having to remove the ramrod and screw in an extension is awkward . Also this is unsatisfactory because the ramrod doesn't seat into a snug fit.

[eagle24]

If it isn't dead center in the ramrod hole, you might be able spin the bolt in a drill press and turn it down using a round file where the ramrod is hitting.  A lot of rifles only have the one bolt into the bolster of the lock, so using a dummy bolt/screw is an option that should work.  I grazed the ramrod hole with mine and got it running a little crooked through the stock.  I hadn't tapped the lock plate yet, so I made a maple plug and redrilled the hole through the stock.  The bolt head covers what is left of the plug.  I'm pretty new at this, so see what other advice you get.  I'm sure some of the more experienced builders with chime in, but I don't know if you have any other options.

[Scott Bumpus]

If the bolt is near the top of the ramrod chanel, you might be able to file a groove or "waist" in the lock bolt and taper the ramrod pretty heavily.  This will normaly take care of the problem.  If it is smack dab in the middle of the hole, not much you can do other than what you already mentioned.

[don getz]

You can tell how much it is interrupting the hole by removing the lock, run the ramrod all the way into the ramrod hole
and then look thru the bolt hole to see how much it is obstructing the rod.  One way to do it is to file a groove in the
bolt, you might have to file half of the bolt away, but there is still plenty left to hold the lock.  You will have to put a mark
on the head of the screw so you can tell if it is oriented correctly.....Don

[Dphariss]

In building a 36 caliber mountain rifle,The forward lock bolt is blocking the ramrod . I am aware that some just put in a cut off screw from side plate to the lock. I do not feel comfortable with that option. If a second bolt wasn't needed they would not have put one there. Is there a way to bend the bolt on a jig so the ramrod would pass through? Is there a better option? The ramrod is 5/16.
My present solution is to shorten the ramrod and have a brass extension with a knurled handle. This is a hunting rifle so having to remove the ramrod and screw in an extension is awkward . Also this is unsatisfactory because the ramrod doesn't seat into a snug fit.

Look in the tools forum for the ramrod hole scraper. If you have enough wood  this will likely solve the problem.

Dan

[Jerry V Lape]

Could he not also fasten the front of the lock plate into the stock  using a hook thereby eliminating the lock bolt entirely.  The front bolt on the sideplate would become a screw instead. 

[Randy Hedden]

In building a 36 caliber mountain rifle,The forward lock bolt is blocking the ramrod . I am aware that some just put in a cut off screw from side plate to the lock. I do not feel comfortable with that option.

The oldest muzzle loader that I have and shoot regularly was built in the mid 1970's and has thousands or shots through it. It has a rear lock bolt and a false front screw through the side plate. After thousands of rounds through it and replacing the frizzen twice because they wore thin, it has not given me any problems related to having only one lock bolt.

Randy Hedden

[jerrywh]

Is your ram rod tappered??

[James Rogers]

I had that problem on my son's little .45. Taper the lock nail by turning or filing and use a long 5/16 metal end on a tapered ramrod.

[Roger Fisher]

I built a Jaeger and used Don's method of grooving that bolt - works fine!

If that lock is nicely set in and rests properly onto the mortice edge and is solid there is no reason at all that one working bolt (the one thru the bolster) and a faux frt bolt wouldn't work.   In fact, it would work longer than any of us mortals

[Dphariss]

Filing a groove in the lock blot is OK but its not what i would call a good solution. Someday someone is going to turn it with the rod in place and either groove the rod or break the screw.
Putting a hook on the front of the lock is good. Lots of English and many other single bolt flint guns had this feature.
How well a single bolt will work without the hook depends on the inletting.

Dan

[Dennis Glazener]

90% of the original Mountain rifles only have one lock bolt. I don't remember ever building one with two bolts. Never have had a problem with any of them.
Dennis

[G-Man]

If it is not hitting the lockbolt dead on square in the middle, you might be able to take care of it by tapering the last part of the ramrod and turning  a shallow groove all the way around the center of bolt - that way it  does not matter if you remove the bolt with the ramrod in place or not.

(Correction - I wasn't thinking - it would matter - you could not pull the bolt through in this case for removal, but at least you would not have to worry about aligning the bolt groove with the rod, as described in the next option)


That being said, if you want to just file a notch on the side of the bolt where the rod hits, just put a mark on same side of the bolt head that the notch is on, so you can see where to align it to allow the ramrod to pass by.  I have seen originals built this way.

Or, as the others have said, don't worry about the front nail being a bolt and use a dummy screw. I have flint guns with a single lockbolt that I have been shooting for many years, no problems.

Guy

[swifty6]

In building a 36 caliber mountain rifle,The forward lock bolt is blocking the ramrod . I am aware that some just put in a cut off screw from side plate to the lock. I do not feel comfortable with that option. If a second bolt wasn't needed they would not have put one there. Is there a way to bend the bolt on a jig so the ramrod would pass through? Is there a better option? The ramrod is 5/16. The gun stock is finished all metaled browned and installed.
My present solution is to shorten the ramrod and have a brass extension with a knurled handle. This is a hunting rifle so having to remove the ramrod and screw in an extension is awkward . Also this is unsatisfactory because the ramrod doesn't seat into a snug fit.[/color]
I forgot to mention the barrel is a 3/4 inch straight so the rifle is a dainty little rifle.  The front bolt has a key shaped washer/side plate-described in the TOW as a large Hawken.
The bolt hits the ramrod in the middle.
I can solve the problem of a snug fir by using a ground-off ball puller. The smoothed over thread of the ball puller will slide over the bolt and snap in place.
If I used a faux bolt with the key shaped washer/side plate, I would have to use a bolt stub no longer than 5/16.
I am considering making or finding a slightly over-size sleeve for the bolt-stub, and drill out the side plate to accept the sleeve. The entire unit sleeve,bolt- stub and side plate could be epoxyed to the stock. I am still pondering my options. I want to thank everyone for their helpful suggestions.

[Karl Kunkel]

Swifty,

Take this for what it's worth (I only have one build under my belt).  I experienced the same problem.  As mentioned above, I plugged the hole in the stock with a hardwood dowel, and redrilled it a little higher.  I also reduced the front lock bolt to a 6-32, and tapered the rod, this solved my clearence. 

I had already drilled and taped the front bolt hole in the lock plate, so I plugged that with a piece of 8-32 threaded bolt, peened both sides and filed it smooth.  What little bit you could still notice after finishing the lock, is hidden behind the frizzen spring.

Karl

[Dphariss]

In building a 36 caliber mountain rifle,The forward lock bolt is blocking the ramrod . I am aware that some just put in a cut off screw from side plate to the lock. I do not feel comfortable with that option. If a second bolt wasn't needed they would not have put one there. Is there a way to bend the bolt on a jig so the ramrod would pass through? Is there a better option? The ramrod is 5/16. The gun stock is finished all metaled browned and installed.
My present solution is to shorten the ramrod and have a brass extension with a knurled handle. This is a hunting rifle so having to remove the ramrod and screw in an extension is awkward . Also this is unsatisfactory because the ramrod doesn't seat into a snug fit.[/color]
I forgot to mention the barrel is a 3/4 inch straight so the rifle is a dainty little rifle.  The front bolt has a key shaped washer/side plate-described in the TOW as a large Hawken.
The bolt hits the ramrod in the middle.
I can solve the problem of a snug fir by using a ground-off ball puller. The smoothed over thread of the ball puller will slide over the bolt and snap in place.
If I used a faux bolt with the key shaped washer/side plate, I would have to use a bolt stub no longer than 5/16.
I am considering making or finding a slightly over-size sleeve for the bolt-stub, and drill out the side plate to accept the sleeve. The entire unit sleeve,bolt- stub and side plate could be epoxyed to the stock. I am still pondering my options. I want to thank everyone for their helpful suggestions.

Plug the hole in the wood with a glued in piece of stock wood make it slightly oversized with a little taper and glue and drive it in tight . Cut the front lock bolt off to the proper length and rethread to coarse thread and taper somewhat to make a sight point, drill a pilot hole in the plug and screw the threaded bolt into it if you want put some wood glue, just a dab, in the pilot hole to strengthen the threads. Plug the other side the same way and cut off flush with a sharp chisel. If you need to put some dark stain in the area to cover the plug. Problem fixed.

Dan

[swifty6]

Thanks to the suggestion of DPHarris: I will plug the hole with a tapered plug of stock wood, cut off bolt and taper to a point. It will only be about 1/4 inch long. I may be able to get a couple of threads with a die but I doubt it. I have a thread freshener file but don't have much room to work.
Then drill a pilot hole, and tap the bolt stub through the pilot hole. I may add a tiny amount of Superglue to make sure the bolt-stub doesn't fall out.

[Dale Halterman]

Instead of a wooden plug, could you put in a steel or brass plug about 5/16" long?

Thread it coarse on the outside and epoxy it in place. Or use a short piece sawed off the end of a bolt. Then drill and tap it for a shortened lock screw. Come to think of it, probably should drill and tap it before epoxying in place.

This way you can take you lock out for cleaning as often as you want without worrying about the hole wearing out like it can in wood.

Dale H

[swifty6]

Dale: You have given me a good idea. How do I send a picture"
Since I need to thread the bolt up to 1/4 inch of the head. How would I manage this?

[Randy Hedden]

If you are going to only use one lock bolt, the rear one, you also won't need to hold the front of the side plate down if using a long side plate. Just drill a hole through the side plate and chamfer the hole on the inside. Then cut a bolt off short and peen it down on the the inside of the lock plate. Think of it as a rivet.

If you are just using washer type inlays on the side plate of the rifle then you can actually mount a threaded nipple under the side plate for a place for the false lock bolt to screw into.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[Dphariss]

Dale: You have given me a good idea. How do I send a picture"
Since I need to thread the bolt up to 1/4 inch of the head. How would I manage this?

Turn the die around, it has a taper (for starting) and a near flush side if its like most.

Dan

[Dale Halterman]

What Dan said.

Dale H

[swifty6]

So that is how its done. I have so much to learn!