Silver Solder

[LURCHWV@BJS]

 
   Bought a torch set at Home Depot today on clearence, $38.00

  They have solder that say's" silver bearing"  Is this the same as silver solder? Or should I be looking for something Different?

    Rich

[marcusb]

Rich,

I went on this same hunt myself not long ago. It is not the "real" silver solder. It is a low temp solder for general use, thimbles, smooth bore underlugs etc. The giveaway is the melting temp. Silver bearing is around 400-500 degrees, real silver is around 1300 to 1500 degrees. I had to do some searching to find some locally,  found some at a local welding supply store. I must warn you, be prepared for sticker shock, its true silver and its pricey. If I recall correctly the shear rating was around 69,000 psi tensil strength, nearly as strong as a weld!. Another option is bronze brazing, which is much cheaper but has a 600 degree higher melting temperature. I found with Mapp gas it was all I could do to get a small part hot enough, if it was bronze rod I dont think I would have got it to work. Hope this helps

Marcus B

[Dave Dolliver]

There is a silver (5%) tin (95%) solder that melts at 430 degrees that is quite strong.  I have used it successfully in a number of applications.  400 degrees is not likely to adversly affect the heat treat of many steels unless they are extra hard for wear resistance.  Another allow is tin and antimony which is not as strong as tin/silver but flows at a slightly lower temperature.  I've found the silver brazing alloy that melts at 900 degrees or so will definitely affect temper of heat treated steels and is also likely to cause oxide scale build up unless extreme care is used.  With all solders, having the proper flux is very important.

Dave Dolliver

[BILL OKLAHOMA CITY]

try jewelry supply houses.

[Randall Steffy]

Rich,
If you are parting with your money for gunsmithing tools and supplies, may I suggest Brownell's out of Montezuma, Iowa. They have a great catalog and can be reached at 800-741-0015. They have the "silver" solders and appropriate fluxes you may need. I have no relationship with them other than being a satisfied customer.

[LRB]

  Brownells carries Silvaloy 355. Melts at 1145°, flows at 1205°. It is very strong and easy to work with. Most small jobs can be done easily with a common propane torch. I may be wrong, but I believe it is considered brazing if above 800°.

[Acer Saccharum]

A good point is made above: the silver braze needs the proper flux.

There are different melt temp silver brazing alloys(also called hard silver solder), some melt and flow at 800 deg F, and others run between 1000 deg to 1500 deg. Each one needs a specific flux.

The hard solder mentioned above is very strong, and would hold a lug on a guard with no problem. If you solder two steel bars together, you can try to break the joint, but the bars will twist all to heck before the solder gives way.

The least complicated solution is to buy the matching solder/flux set from Brownell's. They have high quality proven goods, and 'how to' instructions that come with their products.

To get more efficiency out of a torch, one can build a little 'reflector oven' out of two or three firebricks. Set the work up on a brick, with another behind the work. These bricks heat up and reflect the heat back on the work, making the solder flow better. A charcoal block is really nice to solder on for delicate work, the charcoal helps the work from oxidizing. Obtainable from Rio Grande and other jewelry suppliers.



The 'silver bearing solder' is actually quite good for many repairs. It is convenient to use, and very strong. If soldering a lug on a guard, for example, I'd like to have the lug screwed to the guard, and soldered. I would not trust it as a permanent repair for such mechanical strain situations. For soldering on front sights and barrel lugs, it's great.

[Dphariss]

 
   Bought a torch set at Home Depot today on clearence, $38.00

  They have solder that say's" silver bearing"  Is this the same as silver solder? Or should I be looking for something Different?

    Rich

Brownell's is an excellent place for sliver solder and specialty soft solders. Such as silver solder in a flux/solder paste.
Most modern solders for water pipes and such are now usually tin/silver/copper alloys. They are NOT silver solder which generally flows at 900-1100 degrees.
These, like Silvabrite 100, are really old non-leaded pewter alloys.
So its possible to buy good pewter at the lumber yard even if in wire form.

For parts that require hardening. It is possible to braze parts with BRASS and then heat treat so long as the alloy has a low enough critical temp or color case harden the part. 1095 for example should harden without disturbing the braze. This was done back in the day I am sure and in the 1870s I know. Fruend made his camming breechblock for the 74 Sharps by cutting and then brazing on the required metal then shaping and CC hardening the block.

Dan

[Benedict]

I have gotten silver solder at the local university book store.  They carry it for some art classes.   What I got was a piece of silver wire about 10" long.  You usually don't need much so I expect that will last quite a while.

Bruce

[bgf]

Dan,
I've used the "new unleaded" plumbing solder on a couple of small, unseen parts.  Compared to the old leaded solder that I loved working with, the new stuff requires a noticeably higher temp. to flow (but not brazing range or even close), and doesn't seem to flow as well, at least for me -- maybe just need to get used to it, but the joint strength seems more than adequate for pieces that aren't supporting a lot of weight; I certainly couldn't pull them apart.  Is this the type of solder you are talking about?

[Dphariss]

Dan,
I've used the "new unleaded" plumbing solder on a couple of small, unseen parts.  Compared to the old leaded solder that I loved working with, the new stuff requires a noticeably higher temp. to flow (but not brazing range or even close), and doesn't seem to flow as well, at least for me -- maybe just need to get used to it, but the joint strength seems more than adequate for pieces that aren't supporting a lot of weight; I certainly couldn't pull them apart.  Is this the type of solder you are talking about?

I used a lot of it, Silvabrite 100, for pewter tips on Sharps when I was doing this sort of thing. It is higher temp than 50-50 for example but should be stronger but never looked it up. I have used the lead free on copper pipe and it seems to flow well. If its not flowing you might try a different brand of flux.
I would not use anything but the brand listed here for pewter tips. I tried another and it cause problems.
The Silvabrite has about as high a flow temp as is safe for pouring tips on forends it does not flow as well in this application as 50-50 and thus needs more heat. I use a piece of pine for a stir stick and when it scorches quickly its ready to pour.

Dan

[Artificer]

 LURCHWV.

A few other things, since you are new to silver soldering.  Acer already mentioned the importance of buying the right flux for each type of soft or hard solder, but you also have to watch how old your flux is before you use it.  Some flux's have longer shelf life than others.  In some cases if the flux is too old, it won't allow a good bond with the metal you are joining.

It is a good idea to check the product for how much it will fill in open space as some solders fill better/easier than others.  Brownell's explains these things in their descriptions. 

Silver solder is also a great way to repair brass items.  I ran into that when I made a new replacement tip for an original Civil War sword scabbard drag that had been clipped off in the past.  It was extremely difficult to see the solder line after I cleaned it up and polished the brass.

Gus

[northmn]

I have a braze I got at the ACE hardware store that melts at about 1100 degrees and has an much higher strength than any low melting point solder.  I have a spool of it and its flux but lost the component explanation.  It also works with brazing flux.  I have brazed very small or thin parts with mapp gas but it is tricky as the flame is too broad.  I still use the old 50-50 lead solder for some things as the flow is better and it is not as fussy as the plumbers solder of today.  That was mentioned earlier.  Sometimes, it is handy to silver braze a part to construct it and then soft solder it to another part.  So maintaining different solders makes sense.  I am looking at placing a sling adapted thimble on a halfstock rib and really am looking at silver soldering it to the rib.  I use crews to hold the rib on but may solder in places for stability.

DP