recently acquired and not signed but would appreciate your assistance

[fatfudd]

Good Evening-
I greatly appreciate your website and the valuable information included on it. I have collected many types of firearms over many years
and have hunted with reproduction muzzle loaders for almost as long, but I have not owned an original long rifle until recently. I have attached a website that lists some pictures of the rifle. To appropriately view the pictures hit the slide show and slow or stop the pictures. The rifle has no signature and looks to be partially restored. The front of the stock has some recent reinforcement added to it, I would assume because of the splitting that you can see on the sides. The side of the lock has some barely discernible markings. I took the barrel, lock and trigger mechanism out of the stock last night and I don't believe the trigger had been removed from the gun for many years because there was metal filings from the sear and the set inside the stock which I retrieved with a magnet. I no nothing what so ever about these guns other than the artistry is exceptional. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at the pictures and give me your opinion on what you can discern I would be very grateful. I'm afraid that this may have stimulated a new interest for me or should I say my wife is afraid of that.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Dave
http://picasaweb.google.com/fatfuddster/LongRifle20100908_1?authkey=Gv1sRgCO-hmZDA3LjksAE#

[Nate McKenzie]

The patch box and riveted entry thimble look like so called Upper Susquehanna type guns but  the butt stock is a little straight.

[fatfudd]

Thanks Nate! By the way I greatly admire your rifles!

[JCKelly]

Just an off comment.
The toe plate has a hole in it near the back end- might that have been for a rivet, holding toe plate to the toe of buttplate?  Rivet usually iron. Have seen a German silver rivet to match the toe & buttplate alloy, and engraved right along with the toeplate. But iron most common for these rivets.
These toe-to-buttplate rivets were often ued on Michigan rifles, & I guess other areas as well. My somewhat uneducated guess for your rifle might be Ohio.

[scooter]

This is as close to a generic gun as one can come. Various scholars may attribute, but the raw fact is that you will never know. I have seen western PA, Ohio, and other midwestern guns with variations of the patchbox. Note that the architecture may have roots in eastern PA, but tradesmen moved with alacrity from that region, spreading out all over the Midwest. You can rule out some areas, e.g. NY, New England, VA & South, but that leaves a powerful lot of territory let alone a more specific area, let alone an individual gunsmith. This is why signed guns bring substantially more than unsigned guns, especially as we enter the generic period, after the Golden Age. Sure, many Golden Age  guns are unsigned, even unattributed, but it is the individuality and distinctiveness of their high quality workmanship and enormous artistic merit that carries them into the high roller brackets. Earlier guns bring more simply because of probable history, their contributions to the development of this uniquely American arm, developing architecture, and of course age and scarcity. Fast forward to c.1850 and these elements fast disappear and what is left are generic guns with features more or less [usually less] like the great guns.

[fatfudd]

Thank you all! One question does the writing on the lock side plate resemble anything that one of you may recognize?
Thanks again
Dave

[flintriflesmith]

At first read the lock signature looked like Ashhland to me. I'd try looking at it in strong raking light because that will give a different look. You can even try taking pictures with the light coming across the name from several angles -- then blowing them up.

Gary

[Loudy]

Dave,
Nate and Dr. Scooter have already given you some solid information.  In the photos of the top barrel flat I believe I can vaguely see (under a heavy layer of patina that you don't want to disturb) some intertwining vinelike "wriggle" engraving work.  If this is indeed what I'm seeing, this would be another feature that would point you toward the so-called Upper Susquehanna school of gunsmiths.  This school centers around Snyder County, PA.  This type of decoration is commonly seen on rifles made by gunsmiths from that region.  Typically you'll see it on either side of the front and rears sights and sometimes near the breech and on the tang.  That said, Dr. Scooter made some very good points about these gunsmiths and their tendancy to pull up stakes and move around.  I am aware of several Upper Susquehanna gunsmiths that removed west to work in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc.  They continued to make guns in a manner similar to what they became accustomed to seeing and building back home along the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers.  Gunsmiths from central Pennsylvania often signed their rifles with their intitials engraved in script on the top barrel flat between the rear sight and the breech plug.  Often the intitials were separated by an engraved star.  Examine this area of your rifle barrel closely under magnification and strong light.  Maybe you'll see something there that you didn't see before?  Marking on lock plates don't mean much.  During the period this gun was built most gunsmiths were sourcing their locks from a "hardware store" prefinished.  Similar to how most contemporary gun builders do today.   Thanks for sharing photos of your rifle.  Great find.  Good luck. 
Mark Loudenslager

         

[scooter]

I rereading responses I note the nonsense about lock signature.  Ashmore is among most common IMPORTED locks of mid to late 19th century. Assuming it's Ashmore that takes you absolutely nowhere. That was NOT the name of man who stocked it and has nothing to do with ID of gun. VERY very few gunsmiths made their own locks but usually purchased them from a hardware store.