Ideas? ID?

[nord]

Probably Upper Susquehanna. Your comments would be deeply appreciated.

[Nate McKenzie]

Boy! Wish you had the rest of it. I have an old book called Original Patchbox Designs by Gary Casteel that pictures a very similar PB by J. Shriver the younger from Mount Pleasant, Pa. active in 1799.

[awol]

I've seen the patchbox finial on a Samuel Baum rifle, from that area (Sunbury I think) but it also is found in other schools. 

[timM]

I see N Beyer qualities to this butt stock.

[scooter]

I agree with the attribution to Nick Beyer's work== or at least similar. Especially that eagle [chicken?].
Now here is problem with Sellers: he changes meaning of where men worked. There is a Mt Pleasant in western PA, but Shjriver worked in Mt Plesant TOWNSHIP, TYork County, several hundred miles away. If Sellers had a single ounce of integrity he's put town, township, AND COUNTY [superfluous for someplace like Philadelphia]. Shriver and Beyer would have been relatively close together IF Sellers hadl isted Shriver properly. Never let accuracy stand in Dead Frank's way!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

He told me he did it just to frustrate you Jim.................   .................... if PA didn't have that silly township/commonwealth system of governement it would makke things a lot easier geographically......... very confusing for us western boys....

[mr. no gold]

Looks like there are similarities to the work of J. Roop, Harrisburg and Dauphin County. Nice buttstock and a darn shame that the rest of the rifle is somewhere else. I have not seen a carved rifle by Roop, so don't recognize the style. The 'star flower' on the PB door is found on in his palatte of engraving elements. J. Brooks of H'burg used similar micro silver inlays on his rifles, so my inclination is toward that school/region as a point of origin for this piece. The engraving looks to be finely done and is done in a style found among those makers. How sayeth the brethren?
Dick
   

[G-Man]

Even more confusing since Mt. Pleasant Township York County PA is now in Adams County PA. 

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

While appreciating the extraordinary "artistic merit" of the butt stock and patchbox, it would appear from the photo's that the patchbox does NOT fit the buttplate. Could it have been added?? Is the confusion related to the possibility that there are two makers here?
Hurricane

[Don Getz]

The overall architecture really fits into that Snyder/Union county stuff, but so many of the other features are odd.   I agree
with Hurricane above, about the patchbox not fitting the stock, expecially fitting against the buttplate.   The carving is odd,  don't think I have ever see it before, and the inlays???...........Don

[JTR]

So, do we know that it is actually old?
I agree with the others on the carving and PB, and, the eagle on the cheekpiece doesn't look like any eagle I've seen before in engraving style, especially the wings, head and eye.

  John

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

The patchbox finial , almost certainly, is identical to the one shown in Chandler, Patchbox 1, gun 306, page 165. It is attributed to "Ghriskey of Philadlphia".  Patchbox 2 has two closely similar, but clearly different box finials by "D.Marker." When compared to " Beyer's "pheonixs' (?) obvious differences are apparent.

Hurricane

[Majorjoel]

I would put my money on Christian Beck the later. He liked playing with birds and flowers in very similar fashion. Bruce, would it be possible to show a close up of the cheek carving?

[nord]

Joel & All -

The images I posted are what you might call third hand. Scooter forwarded the photos after he had received them from the owner. I scanned and put them up. Unfortunately they're all I have.

Fred is likely correct about the patchbox. The original photo holds no secrets that don't show here. Even so an astoundingly attractive piece! And if the patchbox was married to a later stock I'll give the maker kudos for his abilities.

I've always been of the opinion that while an all original and pristine example of a long rifle is certainly desirable, it's really the overall attractiveness of these antiques that's their real calling card. We can argue and ponder this particular piece but we can't deny the finished product. Whether totally original or pieced together during a long career this buttstock is a true marvel.

[Ryan McNabb]

The patchbox fit is the elephant in the room.  The bottom finial appears to fit the BP well.  The door seems to be one of those that cuts the BP, fair enough, but seems too long, and the top finial seems to be a terrible fit.  But it also seems that the door and upper finial are slightly bent - which could explain their appearance, given the angle of the photo. 

A photo from a different angle would tell SO much.  Easy thing to remove the BP and box and see what's going on there. 

The eagle engraving and box engraving seem to be similar in level of skill, but impossible to tell from the photos if they're the same hand, but somehow I doubt it.  The small shield is very naiively done, and it makes me wonder how many pairs of hands have been monkeying with this gun. 

Once again, mediocre photos start more wars than Helen of Troy.   

[PIKELAKE]

Could it be that the box lid is not completely closed? Just a thought.