Unlucky Ruffy

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

As I arrived at the R & G Club with Daryl today, to test some round ball loads in my 1861 John Manton 15 bore, I had just gone through the gate, and a grouse strutted off the meadow into the willows.  I stopped and loaded my pelter, Daryl arrived, and together we slowly walked down the lane.  The grouse flushed from a spruce tree, and I raised and fired instinctively.  The grouse was hit by a couple of 7 1/2's in the head...none in the breast.  A nice start to a fun outing with my brother.
Incidentally, he wooped me badly at our rondy in the shotgun match using a 20 bore flint single gun.  Today, he was carrying his Husquavarna double shotgun with BP loads.  So much the sweeter today.





...and while on the way home, I took this picture of a road sign up by the university.

[Don Getz]

Ah, you got good taste there laddy.    Hope it didn't break the windshield.   I do like your taste in doubles, real nice.  Talking about nice, last week John and I were invited to lunch in Lewisburg, then later to visit his neat gun room.   You
would love this place.....his favorite doubles are "Boss".    Oh my, some super stuff.   He even has a Boss "try" stock,
adjustments everywhere.   Also has some super Kentucky stuff, antique and contemporary.   What an enjoyable afternoon,.............Don

[bob in the woods]

I posted on a different board, but will share here too. My NE Fowler brought home a nice goose with it's first shot of the season. The other day, it was 3 shots and a pile of leaves to show for the trouble. The grouse won. My dog "Fred" had a great time watching me react to them exploding out of nowhere. It takes me a few outings to get used to it! Boy, are they fast.  By the end of the season, I've given alot of the grouse on my property a "university education"  I love it.

[Daryl]

Notice how the hammers curl over the fences on a properly designed caplock.  Gotta love those English guns.  This one also does quite well close in with patched round balls. Next time out, we'll try some different patch materials.

B doubles are very nice indeed, Dog - one maker of many fine gun builders over there. 

We also changed his load for shot- found the one Taylor was using shot a huge holed donut.  It was an unlucky grouse. Cutting the cushion  wad to 1/3 produced a perfectly even pattern with about an improved cylinder spread using 1 1/8oz. #7 1/2s with 3drams.  This is about a top-end load for the 15 bore and the gun sure does like it.  He'll be better competition for my flinter, next year.

[northmn]

getting that grouse had to ahve felt real good. Shooting grouse with a flintlock is a challenge.  I prefer to wait until they stop when they are walking from me.  I have taken a few with a Navy Arms ML and a few with BP cartridges.  Using either one, you really get slowed down by the hammers as compared to the tang safety.  On grouse I also only get one hammer back where I have gotten them with a very quick second shot.  Some used to carry the hammer cartridge doubles cocked but open.  When a bird would get up they would close the gun to have 2 shots.  Should be able to get out again pretty quick and try my flinters.  Grouse get smart pretty quick around here, but may get a chance to try some steel loads on ducks. 

DP

 

[Daryl]

Most years here we shot grouse with rifles - head shots, both ruffed and sprue (fool hens) grouse.  This year,they seema mite spooky- more like the grouse in SouthWestern Ontario I grew up shooting. Taylor moved West first, and said they head-shot ruffies with rifles. I called him a liar as no grouse would sit where I was shooting them. You'd never see one on the ground, as they'd get up 30 to 40 yards away.  Here, the best place to get them is during the day along side logging roads, while they are picking up gravel for their crops.

I've seen Tayor shoot grouse heads off at 50 yards offhand, with his .45 3 1/4" Sharps. 100gr. 2F and a 500gr. Hornady RN.

[Robby]

Great pictures, great gun, I did notice how the hammer curls over the fence and it gave me the impression of good precision and quality. Back in the 70's I use to hunt pheasants with my Grandfathers old damascus double, using low brass eights, couldn't let them get too far out though.
Robby

[Daryl]

Robby - did you know the low brass 8's develop identical brech pressure to 2 3/4" 1 1/2 ounce magnums? The heavier loads do kick more, but the breech pressure is identical, whether the round is any of the 2 3/4", 3" or newer 3 1/2".  Gauge doesn't matter either as far as pressure is concerned - each gauge including the 10 bore down to .410 calibre shotguns, produce approximately 11,500PSI with factory ammo.

It was common for people years ago, to think the low brass meant low pressure - it is a common mistake and one that most people think is true today.

The big trouble with older hammer guns, is that most were originally chambered for 2 1/2" cases, not 2 3/4", no matter the gauge.  Having to squeeze down the shot and wads an extra 1/10" raises breach pressure considerably.  That 1/4" over length opened up on the forcing cone and the shot and wads had to be squeezed down the thickness of the case - all the way around for that length.  Some of the guns didn't like that and shot-loose quite quickly. Some, like many of the cheap, but ornate Belgium guns shot loose anyway due to poor workmanship.  Guns labled W.W. Greaner, W.W. Grener, H.H. Greener ,Wesly Richards, Wesly Rickards, and-etc. were especially prone to being wobbly;.

[Robby]

Daryl, I did not know that, but I am thankful that I still have all my fingers to count the number of close ones I've had over the years, still, some of these that I didn't even know I had still crop up now and again. Thank you for the heads up!!
Robby

[Daryl]

You're welcome, Robby -

That shotgun of Taylor's handles like the fine gun it is.  I see no difference shooting it, than any other quality double -  English of course.  Parkers aren't too bad.

[northmn]

Lot of old Damascuss barrels were shot with "low brass" shells.  As Daryl said they were not safe for them, but I had seen these "unsafe" combinations used pretty steady by some.  Black Powder cartridges are a lot of fun in an older hammer double.  I have a 16 double hammer I have used them in.  In the good old days we could hunt grouse with a 22.  Lately they have gotten pretty wild.  I used to shoot them over pointers, now they run and get up in thick cover without much of a shot.  Got some time off work, and may go out pretty quick with my fowler.

DP

[Daryl]

There are many ctg. doubles with damascus that were re-proofed for nitro powders in the 60's on up to date today, due to having work done on them and after being checked out and re-furbished by Holland and Holland or other noteworthy shops, were reproofed for nitro after obtaining the owners consent.  My good friend Will has just such a Westley Richards bar and wood, beautiful gun, that.  Damascus barrels were made in England right into the 1920's on special order- quite expensive actually and all those after about 1895 were originally proffed for smokeless.
The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal has the odd Aution mentioned - Holt's in particular. I recall one 1868 model of a well made double shotgun that was re-proofed for nitro powders. I assume it had a Lefaucheu-type action.
Unfortunately, in this country, well made doubles (high priced) weren't what the average farmer was buying for $10.00.  Many of us were just plain lucky considering what we shot in them.

The Husky I was toting that day has a 16 bore left barrel and a 13 bore straight rifled right bore.  As originally intended and shot, I use smokeless or black with paper (or plastic) hulls in the shotgun barrel, and brass cases with black powder and round balls in the rifled right.  this gun is a bit of an annomoly- as most rifled tubes were 20 bore or less and it was the left barrel that was rifled- either straight or spiral.

[northmn]

This one was down right jinxed.

DP