Author Topic: Sight in Distance  (Read 8555 times)

northmn

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Sight in Distance
« on: October 28, 2010, 02:01:41 PM »
While I know it likely differs regionally.  At what distance do most of you sight in your deer guns.  I use 75 yards as it is likely to hit up close and still carry out to 100 or so.  Iron sights limit much more than that.

DP

B Staley

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 02:30:59 PM »
I like to sight mine in at 50 yards because most my shots will be less than that......B Staley

Mike R

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 03:27:11 PM »
For open sighted muzzleloaders I use a 50 yd sight-in.  With my old eyes that works fine for me.  The old timers shot targets at ~ 30yds  offhand and ~ 60 yds prone, they learned where to hold for longer ranges [rarely needed]. In my youth I could hold a fine bead for 100 yds with open sights, but no more....

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 05:49:29 PM »
While I know it likely differs regionally.  At what distance do most of you sight in your deer guns.  I use 75 yards as it is likely to hit up close and still carry out to 100 or so.  Iron sights limit much more than that.

DP

Sighting a  big game hunting rifle for less than 110 yards is a mistake. I think that the low front sights on original rifles bear this out.
130 yards is probably best for 50-58 caliber. 120 is good.

But this requires a powder charge approaching 1/2 ball weight for a 50 caliber rifle and near it for 54-58. 60 grains of powder will not work in a 50.  The increased powder is not to increase killing power, it's to flatten the trajectory.

Dan
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Daryl

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 06:18:48 PM »
My main hunting rifle is sighted zeroed at 100, 150 and 200 yards. Express sight.

 
 

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 07:52:48 PM »
I sight in at 50yds an inch or inch and a half high for deer calibers.  My grouping might be suspect much farther than that.  Small game and varmint calibers dead on at 25yds or 50yds depending on whether .32, .36, or .40.
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Mike R

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 09:50:19 PM »
Around here the average deer shot is about 25-35 yds, from a stand over bait. The woods I hunt in [no stand] do not allow more than a 75 yd shot typically and generally the shot is half that.  In other places I have lived I would agree that 100 yds would be a minimum sight-in range.  I sighted in at 200 when I lived in Colorado....

Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 01:34:58 AM »
100 yards.  Mid range trajectory is acceptable and I can see more if holding under than if holding over.  Given ideal conditions and a rest can go to 120 yards with that sight setting.
TC
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 01:36:06 AM by TComp »
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

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Daryl

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 01:53:06 AM »
Just goes to show you how things change dramatically as you go West into the flat lands.  Range dictates at what rang eis the best for the individual's rifle.  25 yards will give a 50 yard zero and easy holding for 100 yards for those who shoot close range.
In the Prairies, as Dan noted, longer sighting is necessary - there a 125yard zero works well, for shots to 150 and even 175 yards.
one must practise at the ranges he expects to kill his hog, deer, bear, moose, elk, turkey, squirrel or bunny.
It makes little sense to sight in a rifle for 110yards, when all shots will be within 75yards- and too much guesswork needs to be done for a 130yard shot if the gun is sighted for 50 only.
Of course, this is where Express sights come in - some American guns & a lot of European guns had multiple blades on the rear sight - usually a standing sight and a flip-up blade for longer shooting. Kuntz was one such maker, as-were the German guns, not to mention the best hunting rifle of all, so I won't. Yeah - I'm opinionated on this subject.  ;)

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 01:59:51 AM »
I know this will be different than probably everyone else, but I sight mine in so that it is dead on at 25 yds.
Then I sight at 50 yds and take note of the difference, but still dead on at 25.  The reason is this...I've shot more deer at 10 to 25 yds than anything.  50 yds is a long way here in the bush. I missed a deer long ago because I had to shoot past a branch [ lots and lots of those here]   and because of that 1 to 1 1/2 in high at 100 yd stuff that I always read in the magazines , I nailed that branch and missed the deer.
Now I know exactly where that ball is going, and have shot through a tangle of branches more than a few times. If you have more open terrain, go for longer. My moose rifle is sighted as per Daryl's.


Offline Dphariss

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 03:57:16 AM »
My 50 caliber rifle shoots this high at 60 yards with 90 gr of FFF Swiss, 495 rb. This is prone shot off a "chunk".



I was out hunting today and the deer were not cooperating so I stacked a rock above the grass and shot it at 128 yards sitting. Range is by laser.


The rifle probably shoots a little higher from sitting position, though I doubt its much. But this is still a dead on hold.
Its also the second shot.


The rest of the story. It was what passes for a still day here, but when I shot the first barrel there was a breeze. I thinks "deer don't care if the wind blows" not much wind so I hold about a rock width to the right. Miss was at about the level of the hit but just off the down wind edge. I piled rocks at the spot and then went back to where I was setting. It was close 2" at the most.
I was actually surprised it was not a hit.
By the time I shot barrel 2 the breeze had dropped to undetectable again where I sat so I held dead on, heard the hit through the smoke.

This rifle will kill deer 0 to 130 yards with a dead on hold. No guessing for hold over, just put the front sight in the vertical center of the deer and shoot.  It is "point blank" to 130 yards.
This is the reason for heavier charges of powder, lots of folks shoot less than I,  and sighting the rifle at longer range.
Forsythe in "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" talks about the value of  flat trajectories.

Its why the modern hunter likes high velocity cartridges. They shoot "point blank"  to 300 or so if sighted right

Dan
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Dave Faletti

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 05:31:47 AM »
I have zeroed for 100yd on most all of my rifles.  At this time I limit myself to no greater than 100yd shots for muzzleloaders.   Someday I will make one with multiple leaf sights maybe like Daryls for a longer range gun to use. I live in the Northwest but for how/where I have hunted I have only needed to shoot past 100yds twice in 30 years for any weapon type.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 05:46:43 AM »
I have zeroed for 100yd on most all of my rifles.  At this time I limit myself to no greater than 100yd shots for muzzleloaders.   Someday I will make one with multiple leaf sights maybe like Daryls for a longer range gun to use. I live in the Northwest but for how/where I have hunted I have only needed to shoot past 100yds twice in 30 years for any weapon type.

I like less than 100 if I can get it but where I was today 130 looks really close. But I don't like shooting that far unless its very calm and even then I may pass.
I laid under a bush for over an hour last year with 3 deer at 150+ yards hoping when the doe got up she would walk to water and get distance to 120 or so. She was bedded out of sight from where I was but 2 bucks were in plain view and there was no possibility of stalking closer, one was wondering what the heck was under the cedar bush as it was. Then the wind came up to about 20 knots and I gave up and went home.

Dan
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northmn

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 03:42:05 PM »
I can run into one of two situations where I hunt.  Like Bob I may upon occasion have to "thread the needle" through brush" to get a deer which makes a close sight in seem best.  but I also have a couple of hay fields I have posted on where longer shots at 100 yards or more can be had.  I have started changing my hunting tactics to try and accomodate the shorter range of a ML.  One of the problems I noted from target shooting days was wind.  At longer ranges wind can really make a difference on impact.  I have seen ball drift as much as 16 inches at 100 yards in a cross wind.

DP

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2010, 05:22:46 PM »
I can run into one of two situations where I hunt.  Like Bob I may upon occasion have to "thread the needle" through brush" to get a deer which makes a close sight in seem best.  but I also have a couple of hay fields I have posted on where longer shots at 100 yards or more can be had.  I have started changing my hunting tactics to try and accomodate the shorter range of a ML.  One of the problems I noted from target shooting days was wind.  At longer ranges wind can really make a difference on impact.  I have seen ball drift as much as 16 inches at 100 yards in a cross wind.

DP
The idea of sighting the rifle for 120-130 is not necessarily to make shots at that distance but to make range estimation less important.

I once had a ball drift off a Mule Deer doe at about 100 due to a wind blowing up a coolee I was on one side she on the other. Easy shot at 100 or so but the ball went off her butt and I was "WTFO!!!???". Deer runs off. I reload and head on toward home across the coolee and in 10 steps the wind blew my hat off. No trees or brush and I did not even here it ???
We had 30-50 MPH  the first 3 days of this week according to Weather Underground. Makes doing anything outside a PITA. I think it was 2 winters back a little road side weather station near Livingston recorded several high gusts the last a 150 MPG then broke. A semi driver ignored the barricades and his truck blew over onto 2 new Sheriffs dept vehicles cleaning up another blowover. Local law enforcement was not happy. Don't know what happened to the truck driver but the county attorney was looking for even more things to charge him with the last time it was in the paper.

Dan
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2010, 05:47:33 PM »
Too nice a rifle to lay on a rock, Dan!

Would like data on where a rifle sighted in for 25 yards crosses the point of aim again.  60-80 yards?  Depends on height of sights above the bore, I guess.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 05:49:26 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

Daryl

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2010, 07:41:56 PM »
Rick - I've found most of my guns (zero'd at 25 yards) shoot about 1/2" to 3/4" high at 50yards, when zero'd at 25 yards.  It's difficult to be exact, as even 1/8" difference at 25 yards makes a noticable difference at 50. My front sights usually are approximately 1/4" above the barrel flat (.115" to .235").

 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 08:16:59 PM by Daryl »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2010, 09:28:02 PM »
Too nice a rifle to lay on a rock, Dan!

Would like data on where a rifle sighted in for 25 yards crosses the point of aim again.  60-80 yards?  Depends on height of sights above the bore, I guess.

Sighting  dead on at 20-30 works well for modern rifles with their much higher scopes and sights.
Since the bullet has to rise steeply to get up to 25 from the level of the bore it gives a long dead on distance when the bullet falls back to the line of sight.
IIRC the AR-15/M-16 with standard sights and mil-spec ammo is on at 25 and then again at 300.
The much lower sights on traditional MLs don't do as well here as Daryl indicates since the ball need not raise far  from the bore to reach line of sight. But since the RB is used at shorter ranges this lower sight puts the ball closer to the line of sight at closer ranges. I used to sight my squirrel rifles about 1" high at 25 to allow a 6 oclock hold on a squirrel head.
Some place I have a little pasteboard two part sliding gizmo done by Marlin back in the 1960s that gives the sight in distance for many modern cartridges with the zero at 20-30 yards depending and down range trajectories. Its designed to give a short range zero with a long point blank range.

Dan
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northmn

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 09:34:03 PM »
I tried the 25 yard sight in thing, but found that its just too close.  What seems like a sight in can give one quite a variance at longer ranges.  Also with sights that I adjust with a file I like to have them pretty squared away when I am done.
While we have trees that can block a lot of the wind, I have passed on long shots in heavy winds.  It a lot harder to adjust for wind than range.

DP

Daryl

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2010, 09:52:28 PM »
DP - the close range (25yd.) sight-in is only for adjusting height for point blank range of 40 to 75 yards depending on the gun and load along with sight-height. The windage must usually be filed in or adjusted at longer range to get true horizontal impact as 25 yards is too close to be exact in that regard.  We're not saying 25 yards is the only range you shoot at in adjusting sights. You are correct- it is too close for final adjustment - just that stacking one ball on top of the other makes it easier to find the centre of the group (where the gun is actually shooting) than trying to find the centre of an oblong or wonky group at longer range. We all know that load development must be done at 50 yards or farther out as 25 yards IS to close to show anything.  Even a smoothbore can shoot a 1" group at 25 yards.

Offline Long John

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Re: Sight in Distance
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2010, 02:16:38 AM »
I am sighting my 54 in at 75 yards.  At 25 yards the ball hits dead-on, at 50 yards its an inch to an inch and a quarter high, dead on at 75 yards again, and about 2 inches low at 100 yards.  This gives me a point and click rifle out to 100 yards.  If I hold 1/2 of the front sight above the rear (a la Elmer Kieth) I am dead-on at 150 yards.  This works if your muzzle velocity is right around 1700 fps.

Best Regards,

JMC