Question on inletting the rear of barrel tangs.

[Artificer]

First, I know muzzleloaders don't recoil with the same way as modern rifles as they give more of a shove than a karate punch to the shoulder.  That makes it easier on stress points in the wood.

The mid 19th century military arms usually had rounded tangs, though I'm not sure that had to do with recoil forces on the tangs as much as it made inletting the tangs easier. 

Some early 19th century and most 18th century tangs seem to have almost been made without regard to crack a stock behind the tang.  I'm especially talking about the spear point tangs and the flat end tangs that flair/widen out as they go to the rear. 

Where these tangs tapered in back more from top to bottom in the rear of the tang so they would not as easily crack a stock?  Did they sometimes deliberately leave just a smidgeon of free space between the rear of the tang and stock? 
Gus

[smart dog]

Hi Gus,
That is a good question.  Many late 16th and early 17th century guns had tangs tapering to a rounded or squared-off point.  It seems that a slightly loose fit of the tang to the wood was common.  To be sure, 400 years of wood shrinkage and wear and tear are partly or perhaps the entire reasons but I wonder if they didn't leave a little space intentionally.  Of course the fit of the breech certainly helps to share and distribute the force of recoil. Later, in the 17th century tangs were most often parallel sided or flared.  I wonder if that didn't happen because of recoil concerns as opposed to simply fashion.  The way I deal with the problem when I build a gun is I scribe the sides of the tang with a razor sharp carving knife for a close fit but mark the end of the tang with a sharp pencil.  I then cut to the pencil line, which automatically provides a slightly looser fit.  I also bevel the sides and end of the tang.

dave     

[B.Habermehl]

As long as the rear face of the barrel fits solidly you need to worry about the tang a bit less. A frog hair gap at the rear end of the tang will help compensate for wood compression at the breech face. It is my belief that loading practices place more wear and tear, (Compression) on the breech inletting than fireing. Think about common practices like short starting using mallets, bouncing ramrods, cleaning jags thumping on breech faces etc.

[Artificer]

Thank you Dave and BJH.
Gus

[Long John]

Gus,

I make it a point to leave about 10 to 15 thousandths of an inch gap behind the tang even after carefully scraping the wood where the breech rests on the the stock wood to get a nice solid fit.  If there is any wood compression behind the breech the little gap will compensate.  This is recommended in Recreating the American Longrifle by Buchele, Alexander and Shumway.  I fill in the crack with bee's wax.  Thant little gap is much preferred to a wood chip-out in that area.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Artificer]

John,

That's along the lines of what I was thinking about the width of the gap, so that's great to read.  After you mentioned it, I do remember reading or hearing about using colored beeswax to fill in the gap.   

Thank you,
Gus

[B.Habermehl]

When inletting the breech in a slab, and I think I have a nice tight flat shoulder. I will blacken the breech end of the barrel set it into the inlet, then reasonably carefully but with a reasonable amount of force drop the slab barrrrel and all butt first. Thump her good on the floor, this will pre compress the wood at the breech face. When you remove the barrel you will see nearly100 percent contact due as much from fit as compresion. Now inlet your tang leaving a frog hair gap at the rear end. Less than .010  is enough for me.

[David Rase]

When I inlet a tang the tang is only inlet full depth at the front end near the breech.  The tail or tip of the tang is inlet into the wood about 3/32".  In other words, I leave the tip of the tang standing proud of the wrist and then file it down.  This makes for less metal to wood contact between the end of the tan and the stock.  It also leaves a little more wood in the already weak wrist area by not inletting the tang the full depth.
DMR

[Artificer]

When inletting the breech in a slab, and I think I have a nice tight flat shoulder. I will blacken the breech end of the barrel set it into the inlet, then reasonably carefully but with a reasonable amount of force drop the slab barrrrel and all butt first. Thump her good on the floor, this will pre compress the wood at the breech face. When you remove the barrel you will see nearly100 percent contact due as much from fit as compresion. Now inlet your tang leaving a frog hair gap at the rear end. Less than .010  is enough for me.

Neat tip, never thought about that.  Thank you.
Gus

[Artificer]

When I inlet a tang the tang is only inlet full depth at the front end near the breech.  The tail or tip of the tang is inlet into the wood about 3/32".  In other words, I leave the tip of the tang standing proud of the wrist and then file it down.  This makes for less metal to wood contact between the end of the tan and the stock.  It also leaves a little more wood in the already weak wrist area by not inletting the tang the full depth.
DMR

Took me a minute to imagine this as the front depth of the tang will change little or not at all, but it seems you are referring to how the tang is bent or can be bent so the rear end does not go into the wood as deep?
Gus

[flintriflesmith]

Another way to say what Dave Rase said is that the tang should be very thin at the end so it doesn't have to be inlet deeply. Originals are often no thicker than 3/32 at the tip end.

I do the thinning before the bending and recently I have done it on commercial tangs, which are in my experience way too thick, by cutting off some of the tang then hot forging it back out to length. This can be done with a MAP gas torch and is way faster than filing.

I also believe in cutting. by filing or sawing, a bit off the back of the breech plug lug so I can make a radiused inside corner at the junction of the lug and tang. I saw one modern breech plug tang break at this stress point when the modern milled corner was left as delivered.
Gary

[Artificer]

Thanks for the additional info, Gary.

I found that most useful.
Gus