Author Topic: 62 Caliber  (Read 24696 times)

black ed

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 05:51:27 AM »
I've carried and hunted with a 62 for close to 30 years. 120 gr for paper or hunting. Never could figure why you would have a hunting load and a different paper load. Never could figure why you have a different load for deer, for elk or for bear. Me, I've always loaded for the biggest thing in the forrest. From antelope to buffalo, 120gr has taken them all
Black Ed

Yellowleg

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2010, 04:41:22 AM »
I started working up a load for my Virginia rifle after I got it shootable.  The higher the charge went the tighter the groups got and the higher on the paper they went.  I stopped at 140 grs. of 2f with the hits clustered into a 3 inch circle about 2 inches high on our 100 yd target.  I have a mark scribed down in my horn measure for a 100 grs because the club doesn't like me mashing up their metal clangers and dongers although it is fun to see that 60 yd crow target go flying off through the woods like a boo-a-rang! ;D  The recoil of the 140 gr load is a bit starchy but nothing you can't get used to.  I learned from the Spergia's to use a heavy patch well soaked with virtuous maiden water to prevent any burn-through problems.

omark

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2010, 05:32:45 AM »
I've carried and hunted with a 62 for close to 30 years. 120 gr for paper or hunting. Never could figure why you would have a hunting load and a different paper load. Never could figure why you have a different load for deer, for elk or for bear. Me, I've always loaded for the biggest thing in the forrest. From antelope to buffalo, 120gr has taken them all
Black Ed
cause paper dont take as much killin' as an elk!!! ;)  im also a little sensitive to recoil and it saves powder and doesnt bend up the steel as bad.   mark

black ed

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2010, 05:48:33 AM »
Mark,
Back when I had strong arms and really good eyes I never really felt the recoil. I figured learn where she shoots with your hunting load and keep the load consistant. That leads, for me, to better over all accuracy.
I've made a few spectacular shots with that load and that rifle. Now, The eyes are pretty well gone and the arms aren't as steady as they once were. Trying to shoot using bifocals is a bitch and the barrel isn't held as steady as it once was. I guess the only thing that's the same is the 120gr in the load.
Black Ed

omark

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2010, 05:52:26 AM »
ed, i know exactly about the bifocals, weaker arms etc.  gettin' old aint for sissies, is it?  mark

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2010, 06:30:53 PM »
Like DP - my late 1970's and 1980's .58's all required 140gr. to shoot accurately - but that was a long time ago and powders are better now.

My current .58 double rifle shoots well with 100gr. 2F so far, with experimentation with larger balls and more powder before it's a true moose rifle.  The Musketoon's 48" twist will shoot into a ragged hole at 50 yards using 120gr. 2F and gives up 1,308fps using a mere 75gr. 2F- same speed as the old Lyman books'about equivalence to 115gr.2F. I didn't chronograph the 120gr. load but assume it's up around 1,700fps, based upon the chronographed 75gr. charge.

My .69 will shoot identically  in accuracy and elevation-wise nowadays, with 140gr. of current 2f GOEX to what it used to take165gr. of the 1980's 2F GOEX. THAT's a moose load and it staggers them at 100 yards producing only 1,500fps. with the 480gr. ball.  It's a flat shooting load, for a big round ball.  I plink with this 14 bore a lot, using 82gr. 2F - shoots well at up to about 100yards, but that is little more than a deer load, for me. Sure, it's more than needed, but I also want flat trajectory within the rifle's accuracy and power range.  For the 14 bore (.69), that's a good 200 yards on moose.  The 200yard contest last year showed every one of my hits a kill hit at 200yards, from standing and sitting supported postions.  If attempting this sort of thing, one should shoot at that range to prove the rifle and shooter.

The 20 bore 1/2 stock smoothie gets 82gr.(3 drams) for targets to 50 yards and 100gr. for plinking past that on the longer trail targets. The 100gr. charge IS more accurate at longer ranges.

I prefer 2f for the larger bores due to the easier trip for the patching. This is due to 3F's pressure causing patches to fail that will take the lower pressure of 2F at the same velocity.

20 bore seem to drop sub sonic (by sound) around 60 to 65gr. 2F.  There is a big visual and sound difference on targets between a 65gr. and an 82gr. charge.  The extra velocity does matter, even with round balls.

northmn

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2010, 03:09:56 PM »
Another 62 of some fame is the military English Baker rifle.  It had a twist of 1-120 and some pretty spectacular shots were claimed with it.  Load was about 110 grains I believe.  While not a hunting arm, I would guess that that load was considered Ok for a variety of ranges.

DP

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2010, 05:03:16 PM »
Until the advent of the minnie-ball, powder charges used by militaries were very heavy.  I don't know what the Brit's used in the Bess' ctgs. but the American .69's ctgs. contained 165gr. until about 1828, then dropped to 135gr. with the improvement in military powders. Seems to me the Bess' charge was up around 120gr.

Offline sonny

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »
I just ordered a 16 gauge smoothie english fusil/45" barrel.I was wondering if you heavy bore guys can give me some load info or hunting info to get me started with this new baby.....What kind of load would i use for deer/blackbear???.....is the 16 accurate???...sonny

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2010, 08:57:59 PM »
I would use the load that gave me the tightest group at 50 to 75 yards.  I would project (guess) that to be in the neighbourhood of around 100gr. 2F with a .648" ball and .020" patch.

kyperflints

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Re: 62 Caliber Jaegar Load
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 02:24:06 AM »
I live in PA land of the flintlock....what I am about to tell you is not for anyone to try...I have done it successfully for over 20 plus years...I shoot 2 balls with 80 grains of 2 F....it snake eyes at 50 yards...knocks deer senseless...I only do this because I believe in humane kills, and my eyes are not good with open sights...I use two loose patches
which I can thumb down to start each...one on top the other...then and this is mandatory, ram both balls down
together...any air between the balls and the barrel could explode...see, not worth trying...mark your ramrod
for 2 balls and 80 grains of powder for the .62....again, I am not recommending anyone try this...just a good
topic for discussion....

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 04:46:29 AM »
To load that way for sonny- he'd be shooting over 800gr. of lead with about 95gr. to 100gr. of powder for similar speed as your's kyperflints -  probably not making the speed of sound- perhaps 800fps to 900fps.   At close range, it might work just fine, as in point blank - but could require considerable elevation or most certainly testing.  I would not recommend it either, due to the ball-separation problem, but especially not with a heavier, 1 oz. ball.  You could be taking the risk of gun damage due to the recoil itself.  Double balling small calibers means very little, but changes quickly with ball sizes over .62.  Even a pair of .595" balls weighs around 580gr. to 600gr., almost 100gr. heavier than a minie bullet.

The 16 is as accurate as you load it.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 05:07:34 AM »
What is a minimum hunting load that would provide adequate trajectory in a 62 caliber rifle? I have no experience with the larger bores and would need a decent hunting load as well as a light plinking load that would be easy to shoot. I was thinking maybe 120 grains FF and then a half charge of 60 as a starting point. Thoughts on twist rates would be appreciated too. Oh, I would not be shooting much over 100 yards, maybe 120 at the most for hunting.

James

This will depend of the trajectory you want and the stock design. People must remember that most American rifles after 1780 are not suitable for a 62 caliber ball and many before are not either.
Rifles of this caliber and above must be carefully stocked and the style has to be correct for RECOIL MANAGEMENT.
A Early Kentucky like the Dickert #48 in RCA would work I think.
But building a one of the late Golden Age guns in this caliber would be serious mistake.

SO...
I would shoot no less than 100 grains and likely 120. Where I live this will give a 110-140 yard point blank for the animals I hunt. Velocity needs to be at least 1600-1700 for best point blank.
If you live where the ranges will never exceed 50-75 yards then the trajectory requirements are less demanding and a 20 bore shotgun like powder charge may well work IF it will produce decent accuracy at 75 to 100.
The heavy load will have about the same velocity at 100-110 as the lighter load will at 50 or so.

AS a result killing power, other than at ranges where the heavy load has a significant velocity advantage, will be the same.
So the load will depend on:
1. Accuracy heavy loads usually shoot better in rifles or smooth bore guns. Shooting inaccurate loads at large game is irresponsible.
2. Recoil characteristics of the firearm.
3. The range needed.

The recoil thing, and lack of historical documentation, is the primary reason I would advise people not to build a .62 caliber Kentucky and especially if the stock design has not already been used for a "bore" rifle previously.
People wanting a rifle over 58 caliber are well advised to use an English rifle as a pattern. The buttstocks are very much the same from 1750 to 1860. Just the decoration and the forends, 1/2 stock late or full early are different.

Double balls? I would not bother even with 50 cal. If the caliber is not capable of killing the critter with a single ball then a bigger ball is needed.
Other than in a few legends I doubt that double balls were ever used that much in the past. Uses twice the lead to do the same job with a lot more recoil.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Leatherbelly

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 10:16:29 PM »
Quote: I learned from the Spergia's to use a heavy patch well soaked with virtuous maiden water to prevent any burn-through problems. end quote.
 
Ok, where do you get this stuff and is it bottled like LHV? Hmm,VMW?

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 10:41:22 PM »
I just ordered a 16 gauge smoothie english fusil/45" barrel.I was wondering if you heavy bore guys can give me some load info or hunting info to get me started with this new baby.....What kind of load would i use for deer/blackbear???.....is the 16 accurate???...sonny

Load development is an idividual thing.
Its a smooth bore so accuracy will be relative.


Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline bgf

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2010, 12:08:41 AM »
Quote: I learned from the Spergia's to use a heavy patch well soaked with virtuous maiden water to prevent any burn-through problems. end quote.
 
Ok, where do you get this stuff and is it bottled like LHV? Hmm,VMW?

LB,
VMW is not a brand name.  I can supply a gallon (or ~3.9 litres in Canada) of Old Kentucky Patch Lube and Bore Solvent for $8 + standard shipping & handling.  It has been chastely sequestered in my cistern for a minimum of 4 years, loading it with microparticles of scouring cleanser and a yearning desire to keep your bore clean even as you shoot.  Order now, as the downspout has been turned off, so there will never be any more, just the couple of hundred gallons still remaining.  That's OK Patch Lube and Bore Solvent (OK PL & BS) -- order yours now.

Offline hanshi

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2010, 02:09:08 AM »
Daryl, did I misread or did you mistype?  I have a .62 smoothbore.  I cast .600 balls and they weigh only around 330 (+ or -) grains when cast from pure lead.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Leatherbelly

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2010, 03:17:52 AM »
Quote: I learned from the Spergia's to use a heavy patch well soaked with virtuous maiden water to prevent any burn-through problems. end quote.
 
Ok, where do you get this stuff and is it bottled like LHV? Hmm,VMW?

LB,
VMW is not a brand name.  I can supply a gallon (or ~3.9 litres in Canada) of Old Kentucky Patch Lube and Bore Solvent for $8 + standard shipping & handling.  It has been chastely sequestered in my cistern for a minimum of 4 years, loading it with microparticles of scouring cleanser and a yearning desire to keep your bore clean even as you shoot.  Order now, as the downspout has been turned off, so there will never be any more, just the couple of hundred gallons still remaining.  That's OK Patch Lube and Bore Solvent (OK PL & BS) -- order yours now.

That's a good deal! Can you ship OK PL&BS to Canada?

huckfinn

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2010, 03:58:17 AM »
I have a 20 gauge smoothbore I use for deer and turkey.  My deer load is 75 grains of 3f goex.  It shoots accurately and it is sighted in for about 65 yards.  Most of my shots are between 30 and 60 yards.  I haven't killed a deer with it yet.  After this season I might up the charge a little after reading posts for heavier charges.   

roundball

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2010, 04:11:04 AM »
Daryl, did I misread or did you mistype?  I have a .62 smoothbore.  I cast .600 balls and they weigh only around 330 (+ or -) grains when cast from pure lead.
I think he was referring to a couple of .16ga balls...
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 04:18:43 AM by roundball »

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2010, 10:46:05 AM »
Yes- RB's correct -  most 16's throw close to an ounce of lead -  generally 400gr. to 420gr. or so.  An ounce, is actually .437.5gr.(7,000 divided by 16)  In comparriosn, the 20 bore is a small bore.

2 x 330gr. .600" balls = 660gr. which is 1 1/2oz.  That is the close equivalence in weight to a 76calibre round ball & quite a load for a 20 bore.

Offline hanshi

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2010, 09:26:42 PM »
Okay, I see where you're coming from.  A 16ga would throw an awesome ball alright.  For my use the 20/.62 is plenty and enjoyable.  I did have a 12ga dbl percussion that would really "jump back".  I sold it to get the .62 flint.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Dancy

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2011, 02:56:00 AM »
Ah, just saw this thread was brought back to life.

Dan,

Good point about the stock design. Only reason I was considering the .62 is because that is what the original rifle is that I am having recreated. It is a heavy 1760-70s period rifle from SW Virginia. Debating if I should drop down to a .58 or not.

James

Daryl

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Re: 62 Caliber
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2011, 07:14:42 PM »
That period gun should have enough drop and a wide butt. Drop at the heel (sloping comb) is what makes the gun (comb) rise up under recoil forces and smack you, rather than driving the shoulder down, lifting the face off the comb as an English Design will do.  The older guns, like the Marshal's(I think) & Jaeger designs were pretter good.