North Carolina Rifle?

[leatherman]

Hello to the forum. My first time posting. I have purchased a nice North Carolina Rifle pictured here and need some help identifying the maker if possible. I have found in the museum section that this is a Salem School rifle but there were many makers in that school who made their rifles useing the same patchbox, tang style, furniture and overall archetechture. I am hopeing that something stands out on this rifle such as engraving or inlays, that will narrow it down to a particular maker. Any help would be appreciated.
The Leatherman

[Shreckmeister]

That's a very nice rifle.  I'd like to see photos of the full length of the gun over
an even gray background.  It would make the gun more prominent.  She's a fine rifle.  Sorry I can't help with attribution.  Someone here likely will.

[G-Man]

I am sure Michael Briggs will love to see it.  You might try sending him a PM or e-mail with more photos (you can pull up his user info on here by doing a search).  The forward sideplate is very distinctive and I think he will probably have some ideas for you.

Nice rifle - I love the inlay work on these late flint southern guns.

Guy

[Fullstock longrifle]

Okay, I would have thought that Micheal Briggs would have been all over this one, his computer must be down.  Anyhow, I'll give it a shot.   I think that this rifle was made in Salem North Carolina by one of the Voglers, possibly Christopher Vogler.  I'm sure others more knowledgeable about North Carolina rifles than myself will correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter who made it, this is one fine rifle!  Wish I owned it. 

Frank

[Roger Fisher]

Once upon a time she was a flinter, now percussion.

[Dan'l 1946]

Could the lock be a replacement?

[Fullstock longrifle]

The rifle was surely made as a flintlock and the current lock was probably put on when it was converted to percussion. Not a real big deal with a rifle of this quality.

Frank

[Majorjoel]

In the book "Longrifles of North Carolina" by John Bivens there is a rifle by Timothy Vogler that uses the same shaped side plate escutions. It looks like all of the many Vogler's used this same beautiful eagle patch box. Thank you Leatherman for showing us such a fine rifle! And welcome to the ALR.

[leatherman]

I have only seen a couple of pictures of NC rifles in the past week mostly on this site with the eagle patch box and this is no dought made in the Salem school style but I have yet to see as nice of engraving on any of the Vogler rifles as what is on this rifle I have or any with simalar inlays. It is up there with  the best quality engraving of any longrifle I have seen. I need to get ahold of some books on NC gunmakers for sure. I have emailed Mike Briggs but have not got a reply yet.

[WElliott]

A beautiful Salem rifle. Well done, Leatherman!

[JTR]

Nice rifle! And now we know why you didn't have the $$$ to buy the Beck! 

My thoughts go along with some of the other guys suggesting that your rifle was made by either Timothy or Christopher Vogler.
I doubt it was made by one of the other Voglers' as some of the other details (triggers, side plates, etc.) and engraving style/quality isn't similar to your rifle.

I suggest you buy either Bill Ivey's new book, or some of Jim Whiskers Carolina books and compare for yourself.

By the way, don't sell it,,,, nice Carolina rifles are hard to come by!

John

[leatherman]

Thanks, I will get those books. I can tell I have something special by the interest I have had so far from people wanting to know if I want to sell it. I cant wait to show it around this summer and get some collectors thoughts on it.

[JTR]

Leatherman,
If you have never seen it, a truely outstanding Nathaniel Vogler is shown on pages 145 to 147 (Rifle # 111) of Bill Ivey's book, although this gun is shown in every other Carolina book as well.... it's the one that has a patch box finale that includes the image of a mans face, with an eagle sitting on his head! I know, sounds funny, but don't laugh until you see the pictures, and a really great rifle!

John 

[leatherman]

No I havent had a chance or opurtunity to see any books with NC guns in them . all my books have mostly PA guns and no NC rifles. I have ordered one of Michael Briggs books so far. Thanks for the heads up. I will have this rifle at the Artsian Contemporary show in Lewisburg, PA Feb5th if anyone wants to come by and see it.

[Bob Pearl]

Timothy Vogler would be my quess, but could be Nathaniel also. I'm a southern dealer for over 30 years and have dealt almost strictly in all things southern, but the Beck gun you posted pics of is almost too good.