The Square Breech Rifle

[woodsrunner]

Pulled this photo out of my pictures to show a few friends, and since I had it up thought I would go ahead and post it here in case anyone was interested.

This is a contemporary piece made by David Dodds, and we refer to it simply as "the square breech rifle". The original from which this piece was faithfully copied is or was on display at the National Museum at Valley Forge, and I forget who owns the original. On the original the barrel was off a Dutch musket that came to the Colonies in 1741. The trigger guard was off a French musket, and the lock was  early English. It's generally thought that this piece, a mixmaster, was put togather in the Southern Colonies, possibly in southwest Virginia for service during the RevWar. Note the "taller hole" in the stock. I think one other piece has been made from the scaled plans taken from the original, and I heard that it was in Texas about 30+ years ago. If anyone can add any info, please do!
woodsrunner

[P.Bigham]

Woodsrunner    I believe this is the same Rifle as  in Neumann and Kravics Encyclopedia of the American Revolution. Page 235 #8. Someone made a full scale Blue print of this Rifle. I am looking for mine,I believe it came from Dixie gun works. David Dodds made the most correct copy of this early southern rifle that I have seen. From the the Information you have, this is probally old Information.   I have been fascinated with this Rifle It being A early Southern Rifle. PB

[don getz]

Dave did a great copy of that gun.  The biggest problem in doing that barrel was the amount of steel that had to be removed in order to get it down to a "square" barrel.  Over the years, I think we made two of them, can't recall who got
the other one.  If I recall correctly, the barrel is swamped, but only about the rear 10" is square.....not a fun barrel to
mill................Don

[G-Man]

I think the original is still at Valley Forge according to the NPS website.  I beleive it was part of the George Neumann collection, which was purchased by the NPS with a grant.

I also thought (may be wrong though) that I saw a nice copy of this gun a few years ago on the CLA site that was made by Mr. Phariss(?)

Guy

[T*O*F]

This gun is square breeched on 3 sides with the top being slightly rounded.  The square is about 2.5" long with the remainder of the barrel being straight tapered round.  It's .50 cal with an Albany Warranted lock on it.

[Elnathan]

The original was owned by Neumann, at least at one time. SHows up in a lot of National Park literature.
There is a nice copy with a Chambers lock on it at the Cowpens Battlefield Military Park. I asked the folks there who the maker was last time I was there, last summer, but they were unable to tell me. It did have a square breech - possibly the other barrel made by Getz? I think it is a relatively recent acquisition on their part, as it was not there when I visited back in '01.

[woodsrunner]

I don't know who has or had the other one built with Don's other barrel. I was told-and I don't remember by whom-that the other piece was somewhere in Texas. Could it be that the one at Cowpens was possibly this same one?

 I'm glad to know about the Cowpens acquisition. That has a personal interest to me since all-and I mean 100%-of my people were Carolina Backcountry Scotch-Irish Presbyterians. A Greatgrandfather several times back along with his brother were privates in Murphy's Company, Marian's Brigade. I've got to schedule a weekend and run up to Cowpens and Kings Mountain just to see what's there!

[Dan'l 1946]

Didn't Don Pitsch make a copy of this rifle a few years ago?
                                                                               Dan

[G-Man]

Yes - I believe that is the one.  It was for sale on CLA last year.  I was getting his name confused with Mr. Phariss.  Sorry Dan!

There are still pictures of it on the NPS website.  They are redoing the website database of their collections and hopefully someday you will be able to access better photos.

Along those lines, does anyone know what happened to the Indiana State Museum website?  They have a number of nice rifles, axes, horns etc. and you can no longer pull up photos - only descriptions.

Guy

[don getz]

I talked to Dave Dodd's on friday and he said the one that he built now belongs to Rich Pouncey from Florida.  Rich normally comes to the CLA show so it could have been on display there.............Don

[woodsrunner]

I bought this piece from David Dodds shortly after he made it several years ago. And yes, it is the same one shown on page 235,#8, in Neumann's and Kravic's book on RevWar weapons. It's also shown in Neumann's other book "Battle Weapons of the Revolution" on page 224.

I do display it at the CLA each year along with several other pieces that David has made for me, so it may have been seen there.

Two years ago an exceptionally fine Gentleman contacted me and said he had a full scale set of drawings of this piece that were made in 1976 by a builder, Curt Hemlepp.He offered to send them to me. I now have these drawings-very detailed-thanks to the unselfish generosity of Mr. Geoffery Jones of Amhurst N.H.!

Guy...do you have the NPS web address? I'll search for it, but I'm not at all computer literate and I probably won't find it too easily.

I plan to use this piece when I go home bear hunting in a couple of weeks. The darn thing kicks like a mule, and after 3 or 4 rounds you'll call 911 with a dislocated shoulder ! I'm sure that it will double-lung a bear with no problem, however!

Rich Pouncey, aka woodsrunner

[Dan'l 1946]

What is the caliber?
                      Dan

[woodsrunner]

.60cal, and I shoot a .590 ball patched with .017 denim lubed with bear oil.

[Dan'l 1946]

If you have access to Track's archives, I think there is a set of photos of the Pitsch rifle there.

[boman]

Nice rifle and it captures the theme of the original well from what I can see in the pictures.
 

I think the original is still at Valley Forge according to the NPS website.  I beleive it was part of the George Neumann collection, which was purchased by the NPS with a grant

    The rifle is still there.  It is on display in the visitor center. I was at Valley Forge in Aug. 2007 doing some research on cartridge boxes( a white glove thing deep in the archives where I handled artifacts one could kill for!! )  It is iron mounted and the lock has been reconverted.  the barrel is 39 1/2, 66 cal with 8 grooves, sq. breech is 9 1/2---this from  Battle Weapons of the American Revolution.  If I recall it is displayed with a long land bess, a colonial musket and a german musket, all of which could have been used by American troops.

    Plans are in place and most of the funding to build a larger building to get the Neumann collection and others out where the public can view them. 

    FWIW---I also have a copy of the drawings made by curt hemlepp in 1977 if someone else wants to capture this early American Rifle theme.