Author Topic: Interesting rifle at auction on Gunbroker.com (Read 11760 times)

gibster · « **on:** January 12, 2011, 09:47:54 PM »

There is a nice rifle listed on Gunbroker.com. I have nothing to do with the auction, but thought that there is enough there to warrant looking at. I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on where/when it may have been made. It is dated 1823 on the patch box lid. The auction number is 211191097. This link should go straight to it. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=211191097

JTR · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2011, 10:58:50 PM »

Interesting,
To me it looks like a late (1825-1835) Lancaster rifle, and a nice one at that.... The checkered wrist looks fine, however I would question the originality of the carving on the butt as it just doesn't fit the gun, or area.
I may be way off base, but that's my 2 bits,
John

A.Merrill · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2011, 03:13:43 AM »

Looks Lancaster to me. I have seen that style of sideplate before. It's hard to say about the carving, but we all have seen allot of original guns with good architecture, engraving and inferior carving ( or vis-vers) before. Looks like maybe it's been refinished. AL

pault5 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2011, 06:09:30 PM »

I believe it's a Adam Daniels gun dated 1823, by the initials on the patchbox.
He was a Lancaster maker 1820-40, see Sellers.
Paul

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2011, 06:37:57 PM »

I see what you mean about the carving John.

Frank

Hurricane ( of Virginia) · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2011, 07:24:39 PM »

Two Points;

1. I have seen another rifle from this shop and , probably the same owner...it appeared to be drenched in "some coating such as shelac, etc"

2. To support the attribution to " Adam Daniels" it would be very supporting to have as reference a traditionally barrel signed ( A. D. or related), please chime in. Post pictures and chime in if you have one or know of one.

Additionally comments about maker signatures other than on the barrel would be instructive. Often "owners" names are placed there??? Right?
Hurricane.

nord · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2011, 10:51:12 PM »

The following is provided by Dr. James Whisker:

I see the discussion on Adam Daniels. Strange that Stacy Wood + I failed to locate such a person. We of course had the advantage of hearing of him before we started research and I note also no such name in Sam Dyke's booklet on Lancaster. Strange since Dyke tended to add rather than delete names. Also stranger is fact that Sellers, who claims his names are documented, gives no source for this one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrew Dreppert (1806- ). gunsmith. The tax lists of 1826, 1827 and 1828 are missing. In 1829 Andrew Treppert, freeman locksmith, appeared. In 1836 he was first called Drepperd. In 1847, 1848 and 1852 he was taxed as a smith. In the U.S. Census of 1850, Andrew Dreppert, gunsmith, gave his age as 44 years. In the U.S. Census of 1860, he was still listed as a gunsmith, but gave his age as 50 years. His shop was located on W. King St., corner of Mulberry St., Lancaster city. [tax; Boyd's Lancaster Dir., 1857.]

Lucky R A · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2011, 08:28:57 PM »

Ok, break out Kindigs book and check page 127. Take particular notice to the carving and the architecture of the J. Gonter rifle shown there. I would have to go with the idea that the engraving on the patchbox relates to the owner rather than the maker. The Gonter rifle shown in Kindigs book is a slightly earlier and probably better quality gun, but sure looks to be by the same hand and right time frame....Whatta ya think?

Ron

Curt J · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2011, 05:57:26 AM »

About ten years ago I owned a rifle signed "A. Daniels" in script on a silver inlay in the top barrel flat. It looked nothing like this one, and had a definite "Upper Susquehanna" look.

Eric Laird · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2011, 03:12:52 PM »

Any possibility that the "AD" above the year might be "Anno Domini"? Just a thought.
Eric

pault5 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2011, 07:21:39 PM »

Check this out http://www.armchairgunshow.com/Z-AGG03.htm
It still a nice gun,if it could only talk. Opinions are like rear-ends we all have them. lol

JTR · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:12:10 AM »

Quote from: Lucky R A on January 15, 2011, 08:28:57 PM

Ok, break out Kindigs book and check page 127. Take particular notice to the carving and the architecture of the J. Gonter rifle shown there. I would have to go with the idea that the engraving on the patchbox relates to the owner rather than the maker. The Gonter rifle shown in Kindigs book is a slightly earlier and probably better quality gun, but sure looks to be by the same hand and right time frame....Whatta ya think?
Ron

Dang, I hate it when that happens!

I guess that's what I get for hurrying off to a gunshow, instead of looking in the book, before flapping my mouth!
John

A.Merrill · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2011, 09:49:35 AM »

Lucky R A got it right, John Gonter. Carving is exactly like the one in the Kindigs book. AL

Tom Currie · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »

Good eye there Ron. Engraving style on PB is a match also.

Hurricane ( of Virginia) · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2011, 05:39:09 PM »

John Gonter is interesting as the wrist inlay is "J.G.", an unlikely place for a maker to place his initials unless it were his personal gun, perhaps?? Any thoughts?. Certainly many customers could have the initials "J.G.". Anyone aware of any other signed Gonter's guns??
Hurricane

msmith · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:27:16 PM »

Hurricane, aspenshadeltd.com has a signed John Gonter on their site....I believe it is under their sold section. msmith

Lucky R A · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:37:05 PM »

Actually, the Gonter gun was pointed out to me by my KRA sponsor in an e-mail. He read the followup post, and said that, "I should hang in there and he would make me look good," Thanks Brad! I think he should sign up and share his knowledge, now that he is retired. If he isn't too busy pickin' his guitar and singing the ballads and folk songs of our land....

loco219 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2011, 04:48:42 PM »

Gun sold for $4725.00, if it was a Gonter, is that a deal ?

Hurricane ( of Virginia) · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2011, 09:21:45 PM »

Likely it is by Gonter, if one accepts the gun (Identical cheek carving) in Kindigs book as signed. The price (opinion only obviously) was quite good for the buyer and at the bottom retail for a "signed" incised carved Lancaster original. As my good friend would say, "a lot was left on the table."
Hurricane

JTR · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2011, 05:44:58 AM »

Quote from: loco219 on January 22, 2011, 04:48:42 PM

is that a deal ?

That was a deal!

John

pault5 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2011, 02:34:29 AM »

I just hope you guys are right with John Gonter ID, I should have the rifle by next Wednesday.

Thanks
Paul

KLMoors · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:20:10 AM »

Nice going!!

pault5 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:23:16 AM »

I got today & it's a beauty. Looks a lot like my Jacob Dickert.

Paul

JTR · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:33:38 AM »

Congratulations!
Seeing some pictures of it alongside your Dickert would be great!
John

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Author Topic: Interesting rifle at auction on Gunbroker.com (Read 11760 times)

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