E ROBBINS NEW YORK Dbl Bbl Shotgun

[Silhouette4570]

I bought an E ROBBINS NEW YORK, 28Ga muzzleloading Shotgun at auction a couple of years ago, I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with the name. I'm considering whether or not to send it off for restoration. Except for the ram rod, it's 100% original with all it's parts. When I got it the stock was cracked at the wrist and I had it professionally repaired, at present the crack is undetectable. The gun is otherwise untouched. The barrels are English proofed with the 1868-1925 Birmingham definitive black powder proof for shotguns. The barrels are soldered. They are very faded, even under the forearm, but appear to be twist rather than Damascus. The locks are tight and crisp, hammers even, but I wouldn't trust the half cocks. The hammers can be forced out of half cock. I have a Manton that's the same. Maybe you just can't trust any of these old timers. The walnut stock and forarm arm are nicely figured with some burl to the stock and some stripe to both. Although the bores are evenly rusted, they are .075 wall thickness at the muzzles. Seems plenty to me for a restoration. The locks are back action, lightly engraved, with fine, opposing scalloped lines forming a wavy line, with some leafy scrolls incorporated. They are marked with the Robbins address - as is the top of the rib. I know a picture is worth all these words, but I haven't mastered Photobucket, yet.

I only paid $200.00 for this gun, so if the gun has value and is worth restoring, the cost would not hold it back. But, if not, I don't want to spend money and be upside down in it. So, is E ROBBINS NEW YORK a good name in shotguns?

Jack

[Tanselman]

You undoubtedly have an imported shotgun from Birmingham, England, with locks stamped by the American (NY) firm reselling it. It sounds like it has better than average wood, but I strongly doubt you could ever get your money back on a full "restoration" of this type shotgun. The demand for such imported mid-century shotguns isn't high, particularly those with back action locks, and even if more fully restored, the gun will not create the same interest or demand (value) as a fine, original condition gun. I'd save my money and enjoy the gun as it is. Shelby Gallien   

[Silhouette4570]

Tanselman, any value of the gun set aside for the point of trying to identify it's maker, if I knew someone who could tell if the wood was American or English Walnut it would help. I looked at the name and address under my microscope and it is definitely engraved, not stamped. (I'm an aspiring engraver, not good, but working at it.) The fact that a  barrel is English proofed doesn't necessarily say a gun was made in England as all American makers, even Parker, used imported laminated barrels, even though they did make a few of their own. (So I read, I'm old, but not that old.) Smaller, independent makers, would of course use imported, laminated barrels. The fact that it's an English barrel and not a less expensive Belgian one says something to me. Not to disparage all Belgian laminated barrels as Parker used them as well as English.

I'm hoping someone will come with an identity for E Robbins  New York. In the meantime I'll try to get this wood identified.

Thanks, Jack

[geezmo]

Jack,

"The New York State Firearms Trade" by H.J. Swinney compiled by Tom Rowe lists three E. Robbins'. The first is Edward Robbins, New York City between 1824 and 1829. No specifics. The second is Elisha Robbins, New York City between 1842 and 1853, listed as an "importer of guns and pistols". And, finally E.C. Robbins & Co. at Pearl and Water Streets. An 1840 - 41 directory lists them as "Gun Importers" and an 1845 directory lists "E. Robbins/Wholesale Dealer in/HEAVY AND SHELF HARDWARE/CUTLERY GUNS AND PISTOLS/134 Pearl-street and 100 Water-street/NEW YORK".

I would assume your gun is an import. More research might prove otherwise or we may never know. I agree with Tanselman. I wouldn't put much more money into it. If proven sound, I'd just clean it up and shoot it.  But that's just my 2 cents.

Barry

[Silhouette4570]

geezmo, this is the best I've seen so far. I'd put my money on one of these as the source of my gun. Given the date of the proofs, I'd go with the last one you list as still being in business at the time of this gun.

Thanks, Jack

[smokinbuck]

Jack,
Outside of the fact that "all" laminated barrels should be checked thoroughly prior to shooting them, also consider that; English barrels were typically soft soldered together and that is known to be a weakness that has caused barrels to split apart, the Belgian barrels were brazed and tend to be much stronger and less prone to coming apart. I have a W Richards 16 gauge with Belgian barrels, circa 1850's, in 80%+ condition and it is tight as a drum. Love the gun, but not a lot of asset value.
Mark

[Silhouette4570]

smokinbuck, you make a good point. I've had a few Belgian doubles with figured steel barrels over the years. Right now I have this, my mystery gun, and a Mortimer double 12Ga that someone had the figure restored. It's proofed the same as the gun in question. Although the Mortimer looks great and ready to go, I wouldn't shoot it. It's too worn internally and the threads for the nipples way too worn, even for oversize threaded nipples. But, I have to say it looks good.

Jack