Load Experiment with Swiss.

[jimrbto]

I am new here but not new to BP shooting, been doing it since '53.
Regarding Swiss powder- I used some many years ago (while stationed in Germany) and found that it did in fact burn hotter than any powder made here and also burned a lot cleaner.  Later on I read a treatise by a man in Switzerland who made his own and did an extensive amount of testing against various powders and always the Swiss powder proved better. I made some of my own using his recipe and even though my powder weighed less than commercial powder the shooting results were better in all aspects, cleaner, hotter and  to point of aim. I later found out that the major reason for the Swiss powder being better in due to the highest quality charcoal being used in the formula, i.e. only willow or alder charcoal is used. Here the primary charcoal used seems to be pine.
If any of you make your own powder try switching to pure alder or willow for your charcoal and see if you don't notice a difference. I don't even compress my cake and yet volume for volume the alder made powder shoots better. Alternatively get a little Swiss and give it a try, you just might be surprised.
Jim

[Dphariss]

Dpharris.
  This gun is not blowing patches . the patches look real good.  I went to a .018 patch and the load was so tight I broke a ram rod on the second load. I think I have found a good patch . now I will once again try a higher load. I think I will first go up to 90 grs.
  this gun shoots a good group at 100 yds. about  4" but it really goes to pot at 200 yds.
 

The group size will likely double or triple at 200 over 100 yards.
You can play with powder granulation. Some have reported 1.5F Swiss doing very well in round ball rifles. I tried it for trajectory in my 54 and it shot about 5" low at 100 so I staid with FFFG.
You might try different patch lubes.
I found that at 200 my 54 shot better with a patch lubed with SPG bullet lube with the patch cut at the muzzle. I also found that brushing the bore and dumping out the fouling then running a damp patch down the bore to wipe off the lands between shots made a lot of difference at 200.
I use oiled patches. Currently, pure neatsfoot, for hunting loads where reloads might be needed or when shooting a long string of shots. I have some soft "grease" I made up that I intend to try but tomorrow is vehicle maintenance and Sunday is hunting if I can get up the road (wet snow today). So the grease in he 16 bore is now a future project. To date I have only used oil in the 16.

Dan

[northmn]

As to Jerry L's point about such a drastic increase in kick with 10 grains.  When I did my chronographing I did not notice any thing too drastic as to velocity increases or recoil with such a small amount.  I used 120 2f and 90 3f GOEX.  Powder measures will vary by a couple of grains in shot to shot usage and yet still deliver good accuracy.  I would suggest that the answer would lie with the chronograph.  Heavier charges also kick more as the weight of the extra powder is added to the weight of the ball, but 10 grains should not do so. If one looks at a table for retained velocity, there may not be a 50 yard difference between 80 grains and 120 grains in impact velocity.

DP

[Dphariss]

  On the topic of 80grs. Swiss being hotter than 80grs. Goex I simply don't know but since BP is measured by volume rather than weight I can't imagine the big differences in impact on the shoulder or target but you did the shooting, not me.

  120grns fffg behind a round ball is the regular hunting load around here for hunting Indiana whitetails.  there are 3 54's built off of robideaux prints with sharon 36in 1/72 flat rifling barrels.  My rifle has a .62 Sharon barrel built the same way.  I  shoot 140gr fffg. 
  all these guns recoil and can give one a sore shoulder after about 20 or so shots with light clothes but based on experience we consider this a minimum for 100yd. shots. 
 85% or so of the 25 (give or take a few deer) shot with this load showed no exit wound(maximum energy dissipation in the animal) and most shots have been well under 100yds.  It will break ribs and shoulders on deer and they generally run less than 75yds when shot in the chest. 

  elk are another matter---recoil or not--80grns, even 120grns. behind a 230gr. round ball would not be my choice for an elk at any distance.  ballistically you're down to 966fps at 100yds and 473fpe with 80grs and only increase to around 600fpe with 120grs..  In my opinion  If you hit the shoulder or a rib you're going to have a good chance of loosing the animal. 

   
 
 
   
 

The 54 *is* problematic on elk if large bones are hit, though a rib is not a large bone for this discussion.
There is a poster on this site who watched a hunter kill a Canadian moose at 175 yards (lasered) with a 54 with a 100 gr or so of P-dex. Ball penetrated to the offiside hide Moose only went a few steps. I thjnk he is in hunting camp at this time.
I have broken a large bone with a 54, the humerous, mid-point between the joints and still killed the elk. Ball shattered the bone and then holed a large artery just above the heart. Range was about 75-80 yards. But the ball was well spent and had it not gotten the artery or heart it might have been bad.
I did nearly the same thing on a Mule Deer with a 54 pistol at about 25 and the ball was under the hide offside after getting the heart. Neither animal made over 50 yards and the elk was knocked down for probably 15 seconds.

There is little to gain in  a 54 using more than 100 grains of powder. The use of Swiss FFFG can reduce this another 10-15 grains and still produce sufficient velocity to kill most NA big game to 100-150 yards.

Bullet energy is mostly meaningless in BP firearms and others using slow moving lead bullets. Compare a 45-70 BP load with a 243 and you will get my meaning.
I built a  16 bore rifle (.662 ball) for a couple of reasons, one was elk.

Dan

[northmn]

I think we all have been contaminated a little by modern shooting.  A 30 cal rifle varies in power from a 30-30 to a 300 Ultra mag by adding more powder.  A round ball in front of BP has a reasonable limit and if more power is need a bigger ball is needed.  The 50's and 54 always had the advantage of being tolerable to shoot with heavier loads to get it going for a little flatter trajectory and a little more punch down range.  A 44 mag rifle with a 240 grain bullet loses velocity very rapidly and is not considered a long range cartridge.  A 54 with a 220 grain round ball is going to lose velocity much more rapidly.  Mostly the terminal effects of a large bore at longer range is that they have the advantage of needing no mushrooming.  Big bores are needed for more penetration and power with BP simply due to the reasonable velocity limits and the fact that as a ball get larger the ratio of volume to surface area increases.  (A large bore has more volume compared to surface area than a small bore).  this permits more penetration and a little less velocity loss.  Simply put, we cannot magnimize round ball black powder loads.

DP