Author Topic: Walnut vs Maple  (Read 14498 times)

eagle24

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Walnut vs Maple
« on: February 23, 2011, 01:08:05 AM »
How does walnut work compared with maple?  The rifle I am building now is maple, but I would like to do at least one in walnut.  Only concern is I think I am mildly allergic to walnut or does the dust bother everybody?

Dave Dolliver

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 01:53:08 AM »
The dust does bother me a bit, too.  I feel that maple is the superior material for the thin fore ends of muzzle loaders.  If you can afford and get a good piece of English walnut that is close grained and dense it works well.  American walnut tends to tear and attention must be paid to sharp tools and finishing the cut.  What I mean is cutting the piece to be removed completely free of the parent material rather than breaking out the last connecting fibers.

Dave Dolliver

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 03:27:52 AM »
I had a buddy since deceased that got splitting headaches from the walnut dust.

The walnut is open (pores) and needs filler or scadiate coats of oil rubbed in to fill said pores.  Rifles I think would cause you less grief if you go with maple.

38_Cal

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 04:00:07 AM »
When working with walnut, sand to the desired grit and raise the grain by rubbing over the wood with a very damp, not wet, lint free cloth.  Use a hair dryer to quick dry the wood, which will raise any cut grain...for the traditionalists, use the heat from your coal forge to raise the grain...  Do this a couple of times without sanding. 

Next, take a teaspoon or so of your stock finish and put it into a shallow dish.  I like to use the plastic lids from cans of coffee.  Using a sanding block with 400 grit wet-or-dry, wet the sandpaper with your finish and start sanding down the grain with the wet paper, going with the grain.  You'll create a slurry of very fine sawdust and finish that should be rubbed across the grain with the heel of your hand as you finish each small section of stock.  When done, let it dry for several days, re-sand back to the level surface (some slurry will be above surface) and again wet sand.  If your walnut is very open grained, do this a third time, though it is not normally needed.

After this last coat of finish-slurry has fully dried, very lightly dry sand it and put on one or two coats of finish as top coats, hand rubbed in.  You're filling the grain with the stock wood sawdust, so color will not change, and if you do any checkering on the stock, the filler will not dull your tools.  Be sure to let the finish dry completely when using this method.  Works with modern finishes as well as thinned down boiled linseed oil and tung oil. 

When talking about dry with this method, I mean fully hard and dry, not just dry to the touch.  Depending on heat and humidity, it can take a couple of days or a couple of weeks.

David
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Offline tallbear

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 04:10:43 AM »
Greg
As in all woods, quality varies from piece to piece.Walnut tends to be harder to work than maple.Tougher to get clean inlets and carving.It also takes more whiskering than maple.Don't let that stop you though.My last rifle was walnut and I really like the way it looks.
I am not bothered by the dust,I scrape my stocks instead of sanding them so that might help some.

Mitch

Offline Jim Filipski

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 04:16:37 AM »
GHall,
My family can always tell when I'm working Black Walnut. My eyes get red & watery and I get real stuffy.
Obviously an allergy of some type. Doesn't happen with English Walnut (?)

You will never stop the grain raising in Black Walnut! Of course you can finally freeze it with finish.
I think this is what 38_cal was getting at.

Yeah it is nasty stuff: never can see why it was popular Probably because in the industrial age it lent it self to mass production
Jim
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Birddog6

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 04:18:37 AM »
How does walnut work compared with maple?  The rifle I am building now is maple, but I would like to do at least one in walnut.  Only concern is I think I am mildly allergic to walnut or does the dust bother everybody?

Greg,  IMHO you are best off to hand pick the blank & get a dense piece of walnut. It will cut like a medium hard maple. Just feel the weight of it, if it is light, forget it. You want as heavy as you can find & that is the one that will make you a good stock.  Also I always look for grain flow  thru the wrist first, then look at the rest of it.  If it is not dense it cuts easily, but also splinters easily, splits easily, dents & gouges easily as well....   :-\

As for the dust, it doesn't bother me too much til I get down to 320 & then I have to wear a dust mask or I will be clogged up for weeks.

Keith Lisle

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 04:37:59 AM »
Greg,

I love walnut.  I'm partial to the dark color and rich look I feel it brings to a piece.

I'm not allergic to it, but my hands turn purple...

Davids method of finishing and filling grain is excellent, and cuts down substantially on dust during the process. 

What Keith said is so true.  I've worked with American walnut that was as hard as any maple I've ever worked.  I've also had the fuzzy / stringy variety.  If you can pick your blank, you're better off.  Or, if you talk to the guys who supply the blanks and tell them what you want, you should be able to get a good blank.  Wayne Dunlap has been very good with this in the past for me.

        Ed   
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g rummell

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 04:50:55 AM »
I love walnut wood for my early English Fowlers. However, I don.t go near the stuff without a respirator.
The stuffs rips me up pretty well and makes me deathly sick. Thus I don't work with it unless a customer requests it.  :(

Offline bama

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 05:01:36 AM »
I like using walnut for southern guns that do not call for a lot of carving. Not that walnut can not be carved well because it can but not as easy for me as maple.

If your inletting is very tight you have to be careful not to split the wood in the tang, lock mortice and trigger mortices.

Areas to be wary about is grain in the wrist and at the toe of the stock. I did a walnut stock one time and the owner was taking the rifle out of the case and let the heel of the stock bump the ground pretty hard and snapped the wrist in two. Forutanately it was a clean break and I was able to drill and insert and expoxy a 3/8" metal rod into the break. After the repair you could barely tell it was ever broke. I pay much more attention to how the grain flows in the wrist now.
Jim Parker

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Offline Glenn

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 05:32:24 AM »
Not meaning to snipe the thread (if I am at all), but how would you experienced builders compare cherry to walnut and maple?

I have a stock in each type of wood for upcoming projects.  I'd appreciate any and all advice.  By all means, please don't hesitate to be blunt.   ;D
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

keweenaw

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 04:40:47 PM »
A lot of what one likes depends on experience.  People who have worked with a lot of American walnut can't figure out what the problem is with people who trash it but haven't had much experience with it.  I've worked walnut that was as hard as any maple I've ever used, would cut to very fine edges, etc.  The advise to avoid the light weight (or colored) pieces is absolutely correct.  Of course there is pretty trashy maple too.  Good cherry is probably more stable than either walnut or maple and can also be very hard.  It will inlet just fine but in my experience doesn't lend itself to complicated carving but that may just be my technique since I've seen turned and chip carved cherry powder horn butt plugs that were very detailed.  The thing about cherry and other fruit woods is that they typically have very little if any grain pattern evident if finished to the darkness most people seem to prefer.  Curl and other features seem to show up better in cherry when it's almost not colored at all in the finishing.  On the other hand, cherry is a wood whose appearance greatly improves with age.  I have a dress built of cherry in about 1820 that has color that is wonderful.  Walnut of similar vintage is usually pretty dark.

Tom

eagle24

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 07:58:33 PM »
Thanks for the replies and info.  I'm into iron mounted southern rifles and I feel like I need to at least have one with a walnut stock.  I have something in mind for a rifle an I think a walnut stock would be very appropriate.

38_Cal

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2011, 10:59:24 PM »

If your inletting is very tight you have to be careful not to split the wood in the tang, lock mortice and trigger mortices.

Areas to be wary about is grain in the wrist and at the toe of the stock. I did a walnut stock one time and the owner was taking the rifle out of the case and let the heel of the stock bump the ground pretty hard and snapped the wrist in two. Forutanately it was a clean break and I was able to drill and insert and expoxy a 3/8" metal rod into the break. After the repair you could barely tell it was ever broke. I pay much more attention to how the grain flows in the wrist now.

Bama, you are right on the money about grain flow in the wrist.  I'm sure that most folks on this forum have heard the term "musket grain"...usually in reference to a stock with really bad grain in the wrist that looking at it hard, wants to break!  That term came into being through military contractors building muskets without regard to grain flow...usually with walnut...to get as many stocks out of a tree as possible.  For myself, if I have an otherwise good looking stock blank, I'll reinforce it much like you did the repair, to prevent problems before they start.  It can be mentally taxing to do it on a flint or percussion gun, especially on a delicate stock, without interfering with internal parts! 

David

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Walnut vs Maple
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 07:39:57 AM »
How does walnut work compared with maple?  The rifle I am building now is maple, but I would like to do at least one in walnut.  Only concern is I think I am mildly allergic to walnut or does the dust bother everybody?


If I thought I was allergic to it I would avoid it like the plague.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5924037_black-walnut-trees-poison.html

Dan
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