Proper Loads

[Jeff Peters]

I'm looking for guidance on proper starting loads from all of those with much greater experience than myself.
I'm finishing a 20g smoothbore flint and would like to try shooting the following
Turkey load
Patched round ball
Buck & Ball
I realize it will take me time to work up the exact load that shoots the best for this gun, just looking for a good place to start
Also what is the best way to load shot ... power, felt wad, shot, over wad
I have experience in patched round ball thru my 54 cal Dickert that I built a few years back, but no experience with shot
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,
Jeff

[Daryl]

Jeff- I would suggest you go with only a ball, or a shot load, not buck and ball, due to the spread of the buck shot in typical buck and ball loads being inneffective for the most part. Typically, the buck shot is on top of the ball. Since the ball's greater mass would tend to push throught the lighter 'shot' after leaving the muzzle, it would tend to scatter the buck further than if it was loaded below the ball. The might work better, however with only 3 or 4 shot along with a large ball, there would be little 'help', I'd think on a turkey.  Of course, testing would show you for sure - I'd use butcher paper off a large roll - works well for patterning. for a none-choked gun- 25 to 30yards would be the distance I'd test at.

A shot load can be assisted by using a shot 'collector' cup, like a roll of paper (post-it-notes) trimmed to length. Push the 'tube' down onto a wad that has been seated 1 1/2" below the muzzle, then pour in the shot, then seat an overshot wad and push the whole shot load and wads down at the same time.

I haven't gone after turkey with my smoothbore, but do use 1oz. 7 1/2's or 8 1/2's for shooting trap, along with 2 1/2 drams of 2F GOEX - (68gr. to 70gr.) At times, I will load as heavy as 1 1/8oz. and 2 3/4 drams(75gr.) if the birds are catching wind.

Any choke in your bore?

[Jeff Peters]

Daryl,
The gun is a Chambers Penn Fowler kit with a 46 inch Rice Oct to round barrel.
My main goal is to shoot a turkey with it next spring after I finish the build (Almost done) and work on practicing over the summer.
I was curious about the Buck & ball loads having read about Rodger Rangers using it.
Just wanted to try shooting Buck & Ball out of curiosity
I'm also curious about the patched round ball and how accurate it might be.
I like hunting with my Lancaster Dickert 54 cal that I built a few years back for deer & bear, does a nice job on them both.

Round ball,
Thanks for the pointers on shot vrs powder
Nice turkey & Buck by the way.

Jeff

[Vomitus]

  Jeff,
  You made a great choice for a fowling gun. The breach in your gun is a frogs hair over an inch IIRC. Roundballs loads are "stout' loads for his full octagonal smoothrifle barrel. Your fowler will like (IMHO) a 75-85 gr.2f charge,a .020 thick wet patch(oil type for hunting,spit or water based lube for range and trail shooting),a 600RB, and you'll need a short starter.
 For shot, you'll have to experiment a little. I keep my shot loads to an ounce and an eighth in the 20 bore. I've had good luck with a mere 1 ounce load of shot and others have liked up to 1 1/4 oz of pellets.Like I said, you'll need to experiment some, especially with cushion wads,OS wads etc... With the heavier shot weight, I drop my powder charge down to 65gr of 2f. Again, experiment!

[Vomitus]

  Wow,how did this thread go south? 

[Vomitus]

  Buck and Ball would be fun to play with. Not really practical for anything other then defending the fort. Never tried heavy buckshot either. Both may be good for close bear encounters,dunno?

[Daryl]

They are fun to play with, especially with silhouette targets, but lack effective hitting range, ie: cannot be trusted to be consistant. 

Historically, they were favoured loads by the military pretty much due to the lousy accuracy of the grossly undersized isssue ball ctgs., ie: .64 in a .69 to .70 musket.  The buckshot increased hit probability for shooting out into sounds or movement in the dark during night-time guard duty.   

[Vomitus]

 Jeff,
  Unless Rice has just started a run of smoothbore barrels, I think you have a Longhammock barrel. Top drawer stuff. These are fun guns to shoot. I've owned this model and had no complaints.Have fun.

[Daryl]

I should have mentioned, some guns shoot best with lighter wad combinations. Some of the guys here use nothing but overshot card wads, the thin "B" wads as sold by Track and other suppliers.  2 or 3 of them on the powder, then the shot and paper cup if desired, then a single "B" wad over the shot. As they leave the muzzle, the lightweight overshot wads lack the weight to push into the shot cloud, which helps prevent donut patterns.  Large holes can be created when wads push into the slow cloud just clear of the muzzle, when heavy wads are used.

Plastic wads can melt onto the bore and the plastic can be quite difficult to remove.  Blowby gasses (around the wads) are the worst for melting the plastic onto the bore as these gasses are high velocity and hotter than the more simple expanding gasses of a normal load.  Lack of a seal produces hot, high speed gas blowby. This blowby can also fuse shot into small clumps and also reduces velocity, of course.

[Jeff Peters]

Thanks L B I'm looking forward to shooting it when she is finished ... I'll try and post picture when she's done

Daryl,
Thanks for the in site on wads. I always thought the plastic would melt and be a mess to clean
good thought on the lighter over wads on top of the powder if I start getting holes in my patterns

My main use for hunting with this gun will be Spring turkey and an occasional grouse in the fall
The patched round ball and Buck & Ball will be fun to experiment with at the range

Thanks again to all
Jeff

[Steve-In]

Jeff check the game laws in your state before doing a lot of load work.  You may find shot only, usually 4 to 7-1/2 for spring turkey.

[Jeff Peters]

Steve,
I'm limited to 4 shot here on Turkey which is what I was planning on working a turkey load with
I'll use 7-1/2 on grouse. always had good luck with it in my modern shot guns

Jeff

[Daryl]

Lapping in a bit of a jug, or roughing the inside of the bore back an inch or more from the muzzle's mouth, can help with patterns. The roughing helps delay the wads a tich. This was tried in ctg. guns and didn't work after a shot or two due to fouling covering the rough'd section- according to Greener.  On the other hand, a muzzleloader gets wiped there, each time it's loaded, so that area is cleaned virtually each time it is loaded.

My own smoothbore is choked and shoots modified patterns, so I've none in which to test this 'theory' for the roughed bore.  I"m srue it will help a gun that is prone to shooting donuts.

Taylor's 15 bore Manton SXS capgun shot donuts with lower or higher powder loads than what produced the excellent  cylinder patterns.

The Manton had a very narrow range of loads tht printed both barrels similarly. increasing shot or powder, or reducing powder resulted in large holes in the pattern's centre, ie: donuts.  Good fringes, but a perfect hold/shot would result in a totally missed bird.  Only pattern testing each load change will show what's actually happening.

Working up loads for a shoothbore is just as tedius sometimes, as working up a load for a rifle - maybe more so, due to having more variables- # & type of wads along with normal shot/ball and powder charge & granulations variations.
Maybe it will shoot better with a bit more 1F, or maybe better with less powder, but 3F?

[Steve-In]

Jeff, I would go with a very hard #6 shot.  I doubt you will have the need for #4 at the range you will get decent turkey patterns.  #6 should yield denser patterns and will have adequate power.  Inside 40 yards there is no need for the larger shot for head shots.  Aim for where the skin meets the feathers.
Here is a printable turkey target that helps on load development
http://www.vaturkey.com/turkeytarget.pdf
FYI my son's 870 20 ga uses 1-1/4 oz #6 lead at 1185 FPS with an x-full choke 21" barrel.  It produces 35 yard MAX effective patterns.