Harpers Ferry rifles

[beast44k]

Finally have had time to go back thru the other guns that I bought at the auction this past weekend, I was pretty much only concerned with the Brown Bess, but was pleasantly suprised to discover that 2 from the auction lot are Harpers Ferry guns.
One is an unknown model (bored out?) fowler half stock, dated 1805.
The other is a bored out model 1803 type III rifle, but the lockplate isn't legible.

Here's the link with photos:
http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/beast44k/guns/

Other guns that I picked up include a Liege Zulu shotgun, a British half stock muzzleloading fowler by Atkinson, and an odd French half stock .75 caliber RIFLE stamped "Gauvain a Paris" (Alfred Gauvain?) with some sort of a bayonet catch.

[TPH]

What, no pics of the "Zulu"? (I like the French " 'a Tabatiere" military rifles but that's just me... )

It is really difficult to tell what the "1805" dated lock is on without pictures in sequence but it looks like a civilian shotgun made with a M1795 Harpers Ferry musket (or maybe a M1803 Rifle?) lock, if I am reading the pics correctly. If I am, the lock may be the only Harpers Ferry part on that one. Can we see a better picture of the proof marks on the barrel?  

The M1814 Rifle looks pretty good and reasonably complete but I do question whether the lock is Harpers Ferry and if it was on that gun originally. Are there any markings on the inside of the plate?

[JCKelly]

Very hard to tell which gun is what from these photos.

Be nice to have pictures just of that Harpers Ferry bored out rifle, that is, the half-stock with plain patchbox and underrib.
I have a later Harpers Ferry rifle, percussioned, lock dated 1818. There were changes made from the first HF rifle, including stock profile.

[beast44k]

Sorry no picture of the Zulu yet, but it is a pretty cool gun.
I took a some photos of the Harper Ferry rifles, so hit up my photobucket link to view.
When I bought the lot, my interest was in the Bess, but I did look over the 1805 and instantly though it was a British fowler with an updated percussion lock.
Only after giving in to my curiousity, I remove the barrel to look under it for Birmingham proofs, but only found a giant "S" stamped into it, and the top proof are too distorted to make anything from it.
The 1814 HF has a faint eagle on the lock, but no visible sign of maker and date.
So it might have been replaced during the conversion.
If I keep it, I might do a reconversion to it, as I love flintlocks, and it's not worth much w/o the markings.
Who knows....

[TPH]

Sorry no picture of the Zulu yet, but it is a pretty cool gun.

They are interesting. The sporterized ZULUs don't sell for high prices like their unconverted Tabatiere brothers but can be fired if very careful, using 12 gauge hulls.

I took a some photos of the Harper Ferry rifles, so hit up my photobucket link to view.
When I bought the lot, my interest was in the Bess, but I did look over the 1805 and instantly though it was a British fowler with an updated percussion lock.
Only after giving in to my curiousity, I remove the barrel to look under it for Birmingham proofs, but only found a giant "S" stamped into it, and the top proof are too distorted to make anything from it.

It's an interesting gun, probably using a European barrel and made here in the US as a poor man's fouler.

The 1814 HF has a faint eagle on the lock, but no visible sign of maker and date.
So it might have been replaced during the conversion.
If I keep it, I might do a reconversion to it, as I love flintlocks, and it's not worth much w/o the markings.
Who knows....

I have to retract my earlier statement; I doubt seriously that the lock was replaced, the late Harpers Ferry Rifles had a slightly different shape to the tail and it appears from the inletting that this is the rifle's original lock. As far as conversion, unless you can get original parts (a not so small fortune in cost) and are capable of doing absolutely flawless work in matching the condition of the replacement parts to the rest of the gun, I wouldn't even consider it. The rifle is worth a fair chunk of change just as it is! Reconversion - even if very well done - will add too much to the cost to make it worth while - you will never recoup the money in your lifetime. It's worth too much to do unnecessary damage by reconversion. You can be proud of it as it is, there is a lot of history there. Many people would give their right arm to own a complete original in any condition.

[beast44k]

Yeah, I'll probably keep the 1805 fowler, and leave it as is.
The 1814 is currently on Gunbroker, because if I keep it, I'd want to restore it to flint.

[TPH]

Wish I could afford to bid....