Author Topic: 16 ga smoothbore help  (Read 4502 times)

giffguns

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16 ga smoothbore help
« on: March 14, 2011, 09:48:24 PM »
Hi everyone,

Just finished my 16 ga fusil de chasse the other day which has no choke to the barrel and was looking for some help on loads for the gun.
This is my first smoothy some I am new to what to start with.
Ball size, patch thickness and powder charge or any other help would be appreciated.
The bore measures in at .660 dia.

I have some .648 balls but am  trying to see what size patch would work.
The next size I can get easily would be .626 from track, is this too small for the gun?


thanks matt
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 01:34:53 AM by giffguns »

Daryl

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 11:44:06 PM »
Matt- first of all, is there any choke and if so, what kind - standard or jug? Standard chokes make it a lot easier as once the ball is 1" into the bore, it practically falls down to the powder, yet still shoots very cleanly - mine does, but it has only about .008" choke.

With a pure lead ball, a .020" denim patch will work fine in a bore that is .020" larger than the ball due to there bring no rifiling for the patch to gather. In your case, that would mean a ball of .640". Due to the larger ball of only .012" smaller than the bore (usually it's good to measure them to find exact size) I would suggest trying as large a patch as you can still load - that would be .015" to .018" probably. Going thinner yet is not a good idea, as the patch will not hold enough lube to clean the bore sufficiently while loading. Fouling will build up and cause problems.

I would seriously consider a smaller mould, like a Tanner mould in .635" or .640".  I shoot a .596" in my 20 bore and it loads quite easily with a .022" patch.  I've also used Taylor's .600 Lee mould, which casts .605" X .608" - much tighter but still doable.  He is using that ball in his .620" bore, and they are similar in ratio to your mould and bore size.  He has considerable experience with tight loads and perhaps you would be best served with a slightly smaller ball.

giffguns

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 12:17:49 AM »
Thanks Daryl...

There is no choke just a straight bore.....so a smaller ball and larger patch will work better in this gun.

I ordered the balls from track and the next smaller size is .628 which sounds too small.....

Is there anywhere else that sells round balls in the size you mentioned?

Thanks matt


Offline Osprey

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 02:48:54 PM »
I shoot a .648 ball, .010 patch and 90 gr FF in my 16, works wonderfully.  Rare that I shoot balls in it though, mainly shot.  If fact, I'm supposed to go shoot some pheasants and chukars with it on Friday!   ;D
"Any gun built is incomplete until it takes game!"

Online Gunner

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 03:16:27 PM »
The bore on my barrel measures .665. The selection process will be the same just do the math. I started with the TOW .648 balls but they were too tight with a .010 patch. This left me no wiggle room being .003 over bore with a patch thickness and material that has very little compression factor. I decided to order a .635 mould from Jeff Tanner. Now with a .015 pillow ticking patch the fit is perfect. Just decide the patch size you want to use .015 .018 .020 .022 and do the match to determine the mould size.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 03:55:47 PM by Gunner »
St. Louis Area, Missouri

Daryl

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 06:51:42 PM »
Matt - if you're going to buy balls (expensive), then use the .628's. If your bore is .660" and the balls are .628", they will be  .032" smaller than the bore and you should easily be able to load a nice denim or mattress ticking patch.

We used to adhere to the old rule (maybe it was only our rule) of a ball being .030" smaller than the bore of a smoothbore.  This easily allowed the use of a .020" or even thicker patch.  Most of us today, use a ball that is .020" to .025" smaller and the same .020" to .0225" patch.  The thicker patches hold lots of lube whether an oil/grease or water based (oil or grease for hunting) lube and will also help compress the ball without damage to it.

In the loads we use, there is compression of the ball itself - is it not just a sliding fit in a tube.  If a sliding fit, it will not effectively push down ALL of the fouling from the previous shot and it will build up, eventually preventing you from loading- a ball and patch stuck 1/2 way down is not acceptable to us, so we use combinations that prevent exactly that.  There is never more than 1 shot's fouling in the bore and that is pushed down when loading the next ball. As far as accuracy is concerned, perhaps your gun wants a loose fit and wants you to wipe it often - it's up to your gun.  I refuse to do that with my smoothbore and perhaps that's why it isn't very good past 30 or 35yards. To that range, it will hold 1 1/2", but goes to pot by 50 yards. For me, it's merley a shot gun that I sometimes will shoot balls in. I refuse to have to wipe the bore while shooting.

If you do the math on bore and patch thickness:

.660" bore - .628" ball = .032" difference.  .032" divided by 2 = .016" per side. It would appear that a .016" to .018" patch would perfectly fit with that sized ball, however there would be no or very little compression/pressure of the patch into the ball to assist in cleanign while loading. The pressure against the side of the bore would be minimal. Yes - it would load with almost no effort sliding down a 'freshly wiped and clean bore by the weight of the rod - something some guys seem to like, but then, they also seem to like to wipe the bore every shot or so.

It all depends on what YOU want to so. Spend the day wiping the bore, or simply load and shoot, load and shoot.  the first is less critical of patch thickness - in fact you don't even had to use a patch, just a thin wad over the ball to hold it, will do. Even that will shoot into 1 1/2" to 2" at 25 yards.

That same .628" ball, if of pure lead, will easily load with a .022" denim patch, and if the crown is nicely rounded as it should be, will start easily without cutting the patch - but- you wil probably need a short starter.  You will not be able to thumb start it - if you want to use nothing more than your thumb, you'll need to use thinner material and may find you have to carry lots of cloth for wiping the bore.  For those who have to wipe and dry their bores while shooting a 20 to 50 shot trail, with rifle or smoothbore, what do you do with all the dirty patches?

This is my 20 bore's muzzle.



This is how I made it look that way with 320 grit (fine) emery cloth. Wrist rotation pluss periodically rotating the gun to keep it even.  A cleaning patch shoved 3" down the tube will collect debris and it easily removed with long tweezers or long needle nose pliers. If not available, a worm on a rod or hooked piece of wire will suffice.


giffguns

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 08:23:58 PM »
Thanks everyone for the help.

I don't plan on shooting a whole lot of round balls maybe for hunting deer but if the .628 balls shoot good I will probably get a mold and make my own.

Where do I get denim patches or the material to make them from?

Daryl ....thanks for all the help . I think I have a good starting plan now.

Daryl

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Re: 16 ga smoothbore help
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 05:41:42 PM »
Sewing shops have yard goods as do most WalMarts.