Author Topic: Sperm whale oil (Read 11481 times)

pathfinder · « **on:** March 31, 2011, 04:34:16 PM »

Did I read correctly somewhere the Dextron II trans fluid was devoloped to replace Sperm Whale oil in WWII? I've been using it as an after cleaning oil the last few months and it work really good! Use to have a couple of gallons of the real stuff when my Grandfather had the Clock shop,no idea were it is now,both Dad and Gramps are gone and not sayin'!
Is the real stuff even available,and what is a good replacement.

hortonstn · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2011, 04:45:04 PM »

i don't know if dexron II is a correct replacement, but being the old chevy partsman for 35 years i know they came out with a replacement. it was used in the old positrac gm rearends its now under gm pn 1052358 i have no idea what is in
it the whale sperm oil went out when the whales became endangered
paul

Gaeckle · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:07:30 PM »

I have heard that myself, but I cannot verify if it is true.....works well with stuck pnuematic valves and cylinders.

keweenaw · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:26:56 PM »

Sperm whales are a highly endangered species and trade in products currently derived from them, including teeth and oil, is illegal, period. The only exceptions are for articles which have a traceable provenance to a date before the law went into effect. So if you have a scrimshawed whale tooth that has a history that can be traced to a date before sometime in the late 1960's you can sell it. If you have a raw tooth with a traceable history you can sell it. If you have a raw tooth that you picked up at a flea market it would be illegal to sell and your purchase would have been illegal. The fish and wildlife service doesn't really get hung up on possession of a whale tooth but don't advertise it for sale. Since the oil can't be traced to date of origin it can't be sold even if you know it's old.

The reason that whale oil was so valuable as a clock lube is that it doesn't oxidize and get thick. There are many different available lubes suitable for clocks that were developed to replace sperm oil but we don't use them on guns much because they are frightfully expensive. I'm told by my long range shooting friends that sperm oil works wonderfully as a lube on paper patched bullets.

Tom

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:31:41 PM »

My brother Daryl found that oil rendered from the interior abdominal fat of the marmot has very similar qualities to sperm whale oil. Seriously.
The lowly groundhog is a close relative, and I think it would be worth some experimentation.

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2011, 06:41:33 PM »

Might be wrong; but I understand that Jojoba (hohoba) oil dirived from said bush that grow in our S/W area is very close to the whale schmutz.

Shovelbuck · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:11:50 PM »

Quote

Might be wrong; but I understand that Jojoba (hohoba) oil dirived from said bush that grow in our S/W area is very close to the whale schmutz.

I've been using Jojoba for around 10 years with good results.

westerner · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2011, 08:57:07 PM »

I use Jojoba for oiling the paper strips for my slug gun. Have also used three in one oil and transmission fluid. Cant tell any difference in loading or on the target. I prefer the Jojoba because its good for the skin.

Joe.

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:16:42 PM »

Daryl,

The groundhog is a close relative of who?

Leatherbelly · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:39:42 PM »

Show me some of them groundhogs/marmots. They lie! time to shoot 'em all! Still a foot or more of snow in my yard and more snow predicted tonite.The test groundhog musta been blind. Sheesh,enough winter for me!

Dphariss · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:51:45 PM »

Sperm Whale oil, the oil from the cavity in the head is a liquid wax. Its not a fat oil like bear oil etc.
It has different properties and was used for lubrication of fine mechanisms.
Its not the whale oil rendered from blubber for use in oil lamps and other animal fat uses back in the day.

While various animal oils, bear etc. work very well for patch lubes etc they are not sperm oil.
Aside from finding some in an old warehouse or knowing some Japanese whaler getting Sperm Oil is virtually impossible.
Dan

Dphariss · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2011, 09:59:49 PM »

ATF.
I found this on Wiki
In the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, ATF contained whale oil as a friction modifier. But since whale oil would break down at higher temperatures, cars produced in the 70s and later would not be able to use whale oil because of the higher engine coolant temperatures employed to reduce emissions and save fuel. A moratorium on whale oil at that time prevented the continued production of older ATFs such as the original DEXRON formulation (Type B), and the Type A which preceded it. General Motors began marketing Dexron II Type C and later Dexron II Type D to replace the whale oil-derived fluids.[2]

The later versions of the various ATFs are now synthetic oils due to their ability to withstand the heat without breaking down.
Synthetic ATF might be a great lube for locks and such. I use 0w30 Amsoil at times, neither are anything that I would use on a shooting patch since I have no idea how the oils and additives will react with BP fouling and the heat generated.
Petroleum oil left in the bore, breech can produce a product much like asphalt in the breech area so its a good idea to wipe all the oil out before loading.

Dan

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:12:14 PM »

Thanks Dan for that information. And now that you've mentioned it, I remembered the fact. It is talked about at length in the historical novel series of Patrick O'Brien featuring the characters Jack Aubrey and his friend, Dr. Maturin.

keweenaw · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:26:33 PM »

Sperm oil was also an exceptionally good oil for quenching springs. My Dad used it for this in his shop for 60 years.

Tom

VAshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2011, 10:44:57 PM »

When I was a boy sperm oil was all I ever used in a muzzle loader. Water to clean and sperm oil to protect. I still remember the smell of sperm oil. It makes me think of shooting when I was young. I sure wish I had put away a few gallons of the stuff when I could have.

The closest thing I've found today is Balistol but it sure doesn't smell like sperm oil.

Doug

pathfinder · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2011, 11:21:23 PM »

Whale schmutz, I love it! Thanks for the grin Roger! Always lookin for excuses to putz around in the shop as a break from building. So it's a no as to using Dextron II as a replacement? I now use a highly refined mineral oil in my clock restoration work and it works extremely well. Hobby shops sell the oil in a "pen" type dispenser for @ $3'00,or the same thing from clock supply houses for $25-35.00! Go figure.

I've found all these formula's work well. I clean and oil my guns at least once a month so long term storage isn't an issue for me. Interesting the amount of knowledge here that's free for the asking. Thanks to all!

MScott · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2011, 12:32:24 AM »

Where does one buy a barrel that shoots paper patched or grease grooved bullets? Muzzleloading that is.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2011, 12:52:01 AM »

My .45 cal. 1 in 18 in twist barrel was made by Riley Smith. Shoots 530 gr PP bullets wonderfully.
It's turning 15 years old this year. That means I have probably put about 14 to 15 thousand rounds through it. That's a lot of powder and lead !

Kermit · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2011, 03:31:17 AM »

Rumor has it that sperm whale oil can still be had in Iceland, but you couldn't prove it by me. Jojoba oil is supposed to be a pretty fair substitute. Some swear that camellia oil is as close as you can come from a plant.

http://www.essentialoil.com/index.php?cPath=284_292

4oz or 5 gal, they've got it. It's food and cosmetic grade stuff, and pretty slick. Woodworkers like it for tool protection. Supposed to make tools cut better. Samurai swords were supposedly protected with it. Japanese women claimed it grew hair. Take note, men. Make a salad, fry donuts, oil yer fusil.

Dphariss · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2011, 03:45:29 AM »

If what I have read is correct the Trapdoor Springfield actions were casehardened and quenched in sperm oil.
Would have to dig to find a citation.
The colors were muted, based on a box of new TD Carbines I saw in a museum. But still colored in random patterns.

Dan

keweenaw · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2011, 04:12:36 PM »

Badger barrels will also cut barrels for shooting paper patched or greased groove muzzleloading bullets.

Tom

Dphariss · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:18:46 PM »

Quote from: MScott on April 01, 2011, 12:32:24 AM

Where does one buy a barrel that shoots paper patched or grease grooved bullets? Muzzleloading that is.

I think we need a little clarification here.
A bullet barrel is a bullet barrel. How the bullet is loaded makes no difference. Saw the chamber end off a BL barrel and install a breechplug and its a ML barrel.
Basically if someone is selling ML bullet barrels as something different than a barrel for a BPCR or other cast bullet application its snake oil.
The projectile type, PP or GG, makes no difference in rifling form or groove depth. The only difference would be false muzzle and these are used on both vintage and modern breechloaders are well as MLs.

The only difference would be if picket bullets are being used but these do not need a true "bullet" twist being in the 30" to 48" range in most cases.
Before the business sold plains rifle length 50 and 54 caliber RB barrels were available from Badger.
If they make a barrel in the weight/contour needed Green Mountain is a good choice for quality/price.
If you want something special try one of the custom CF barrel makers.
Bartlien has been getting very good reviews from very picky modern shooters. They can produce almost any twist you want.
Krieger is good.
Both make single point cut rifled barrels.
I think both can do very heavy contours on special order.
There are others.
I prefer cut barrels to buttoned.
I would avoid gain twists for bullets. Very slight gains are good but the rapid gains historically used in picket/PRB rifles do not work well with long bullets.
If you can get a contour that matches the need Green Mountain is good from all accounts. They make a number of contours matching many of the old Winchester contours including #4 and #5. But these are still light by slug gun standards. I have only used one and the customer was happy with the result.
I used a number of Badger Barrels before the sale but never got the last 3 barrels I ordered just before the sale took place.
I have no reason to think the quality is worse now than before. My personal BPCRs both have Badger barrels.

Dan

Swampwalker · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:45:52 PM »

I bought a GM Winchester taper #3 1/2 in .40 cal to make up into a sporting/target rifle based on an original by Krider of Philadelphia. It weighs over six pounds. Hope to start on it this summer.

WB Selb · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2011, 09:49:18 PM »

Rice Barrel Co. makes a fast twist barrel out of 4140 with .0035"-.0040" deep rifling that will handle pp bullets nicely. Back to the original subject, meadowfoam oil is a near exact replacement for sperm oil, it is used in the cosmetic industry. I have used it extensively in my BPCR lubes shooting pp bullets; the only drawback, it is EXPENSIVE!

Brant

satwel · « **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2011, 10:22:54 PM »

Jojoba oil contains a naturally occurring wax that makes it similar to sperm whale oil. I have read that it's the next best thing to whale oil. I've used jojoba oil as a patch lube with great success for 10 years. There is another poster on this board who lubricates his lock with it. I haven't tried that yet. Can't speak to its effectiveness as a rust inhibitor.

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Author Topic: Sperm whale oil (Read 11481 times)

keweenaw

westerner

Leatherbelly

keweenaw

VAshooter

keweenaw

WB Selb