Questions on Transitional Longrifles

[mountainman]

Excuse my ignorance, but can anyone explain to me what a transitional longrifle is??
I have this lock, a jack haugh design, for use on transitional longrifle

[JTR]

Gawds, I hate to answer as everyone here is being so opinionated lately , but I would say the transition from the European Jaeger into the American Longrifle.
Such a gun would have both Jaeger and longrifle traits.
John

[Jim Filipski]

Hypothesis:
German gunsmith comes to the new world. Settles in Southeastern PA.
He is used to building short barreled jaeger rifles (22 balls to a pound) In Germany not to hard to travel open roads & trails Not a problem carrying the weight Don't need much projectiles Just going to hunt the deer down the road!
   Now in America vast wilderness... long travels between settlements. A need to carry more shots  between excursions into the wild. Smaller calibers needed  and longer bores to increase velocity so the new  42 balls to a pound will hit with the same gusto as the old rifles in Europe. Need to carry more shot into the backwoods. Fits the situation (?)

[flintriflesmith]

Another way it has been said is that a "Transitional Longrifle" is the missing link between the Jaeger and the longrifle. The problem is that they are just that---missing! Most of the original rifles pointed to a transitional have turned out, on close examination, to be American restocks of European rifles or simply European rifles with longish barrels.

Gary

[lew wetzel]

heres a pic of one i built for my stepfather..

[Dave B]

Is not the Edward Marshal rifle a restock using european parts?

[Longknife]

The barrel on the Marshall Rifle has the inscription "I*A*D RoThEN BERG" (inscribed  this way) and is believed to be of European origin. There is a town in Germany named Rotherberg. It is not known weather it is a restock or not but Shumway hypothensizes (guesses) that the inscription is too crude to have been done by the highly skilled gunmaker??....Ed

[AeroE]

The trail to the well defined American longrifle likely had several forks starting at the imported German gun; some builders made new guns the same as they were trained to build in Germany, some guns were restocks that looked like the donor gun, some were restocks with new ideas, some guns were all new with a blend of old and new ideas, and some guns were all new in concept and parts.  They were likely not built at identical times, but the time spans overlapped.  They all followed a certain sense of acceptable contemporary fashion, guided by a firm hand of acceptable cost, in addition to practical ideas about how the guns had to be used.

The same thing happened with guns dominated by English, French, and Dutch ideas, and they cross pollinated up and down the coast over a period of only 60 or 70 years; which is remarkable, I think, considering the difficulty of travel and the press of simply making a living in that time.

[tg]

I don't think we can rule out any English infuence either the gun would retain some of the traits of the European style and yet be a bit different but not yet unique enough to be an American longrifle, it would have nothing to do with barrel length, maybe the lack of a stepped wrist, this would take away something from the German side, then that would need t be treplaced by something purely colonial??? I often think this transitional gun think is quite elusive and if the gun is not purely German or Engish  then "early longrifle" might be a better term. The Jaeger to longrifle thing is a bit to simple and doesn't really hold true IMHO.

[Majorjoel]

 My interpretation of a transitional American longrifle would be quite Germanic, utilizing American maple for stock wood. The barrel length would be somewhat shorter than the 40+ inch used on later longguns. Bore size 50 cal or greater. The use of sling swivels and a fairly beefy butt width and overall "chunky" stature in architecture. I chose no patchbox for mine but a wooden covered trap box or a simple brass 2 piece would have been OK. The lock would be of the Germanic type, even imported from the old country. This is just my idea of what the missing link would look like. Others will differ, your milage may vary. http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq171/joelhall452/P1000237.jpg[/img]]  http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq171/joelhall452/P1000239.jpg[/img]]  [ftp][/ftp]

[David Rase]

Another way it has been said is that a "Transitional Longrifle" is the missing link between the Jaeger and the longrifle. The problem is that they are just that---missing!
Gary

Hence the term "fantasy rifle".  I have heard that term used among many of whom I consider the scholars of the American longrifle.
DMR

[rich pierce]

The term "transitional rifle" is now outdated, based on a theory that was reasonable at one time by authors who focused primarily on Golden Age rifles.  To them, early American rifles looked chunky and so did "jaegers".  Early American rifles were often made by Germanic immigrants.   So they surmised that there was a continuum somewhere between short barreled jaeger rifles and the long barreled slim "Kentucky".  Things were written over and over and accepted as fact.  It is pretty clear that early rifles made here varied a great deal and there is almost no evidence of step-wise, intermediate barrel lengths.  Somehow barrel lengths jumped from 28" in the short barreled forms of jaegers to 40" and longer in less than one generation?  We don't know why early American rifles had long barrels but most did.  There are reasonable hypotheses but nothing in period literature.

It is now better to use the term "early rifle" as far as I am concerned.  But for ease of communication, many suppliers will offer stocks or kits for "transitional rifles" so we are going to be stuck with the term for another 50 years I suppose.

[Dphariss]

Is not the Edward Marshal rifle a restock using european parts?

How could you tell?
The parts were being imported as parts in Colonial Times so in reality parts were parts.
It could easily be either way I suppose.
The Joh Schritt rifle comes pretty close to being transitional I guess. But its been "collector improved" to make it look "more like a Kentucky" from what I have read.

Dan

[Stophel]

Most of the step in the wrist has been removed (cut down the bottom of the butt), the original triggerguard is long gone.

[tg]

"It is now better to use the term "early rifle" as far as I am concerned"

That sounds a lot like what I was trying to say, I think you have pretty well put a solid answer to the question, I have noticed that the term transitional is not used on the various forums as mucxh as it was ten years ago on the numerous E-Mail lists .