Author Topic: Distance Loads ???  (Read 5357 times)

Horserod

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Distance Loads ???
« on: March 26, 2011, 06:18:18 AM »
 I have a question about powder charges and shooting longer distances.  Is there a set rule that a black powder and round ball shooter uses when shooting at different ranges with iron sights ??  Such as:  going from 25 yds to 50 yds or 50 yds to 100 yds.  Would one consider a 10%, 15%, 20% increase with the same patch/ball combo ???   Or should I just spend the time at the range figuring it out myself ???  Thanks for the help,  Horserod

roundball

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 02:53:37 PM »

Or should I just spend the time at the range figuring it out myself ???  Thanks for the help,  Horserod


That would be my assumption...there are so many different variables from calibers, snugness of PRB combos, different burn rates of different powders, and all the variables of actually building/loading the shot, differences in sights and sight pictures, etc, that I wouldn't think there could be a hard fast rule of incremental % steps...no one size fits all sort of an answer.
And its not like huge amounts of range testing is involved...IE: zero at 25yds with a powder charge that suits your interests...(possibly the caliber...50grns powder in a .50cal, etc)...then using the same POA, see what if anything you need to do to the powder charge to get the same POI at 50yds, then 75, then 100...make a couple notes and you're done.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 03:43:29 PM »
I like to find the load the rifle shoots its best groups with and one that has enough power and then sight in dead on at 50 or 100 and then record where she shoots at the other ranges. It wont be alot of difference for deer hunting aplications but might be enough to throw you out of the ten ring on paper matches.  The fun part is in the experimenting but remember to record it in a note book for future reference.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 07:33:59 PM »
For calibers .40 and up I'll have two different loads.  The heavy (deer) load that gives the best accuracy and a lighter, accurate, plinking, target, everyday load.  The heavy load is sighted in so that the light load will not drop below the line of sight at 50 yards.
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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 11:22:35 PM »
Some shooters show more front sight to reach out there beyond 100 yds.

My offhander .454 ball .017 spit patch, recently up to 60 3f Goex at 25 yds, 70 at 50 yds and 85 at 100; but she's very slick.  I was getting lousy groups and low shots and increasing the charge brought her back in. That and going to .017 patching in lieu of .015. I wonder what her next move will be ::)  I really should take the time and go back to the .015 patch with the heavier charge and see what actually cured her.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:45:15 AM by Roger Fisher »

Horserod

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 08:38:34 AM »
 OK guys,  I'm working with a .32 cal flint rifle.  With 19 grs 3F and my tested RB/patch combo, I will tear the center out of my target at 25 yds.  Going to 50 yds I found that a 25% increase (approx 5 grs of 3F) would put me back in the center.  Does that mean I need another 25% increase at 75 yds ??? and another 25% at 100 yds ???   I know there are many variables involved , but, what I'm asking is if there is a "basic" rule of thumb in figuring out where to start when increasing yardage to shoot.  Is there a constant figure to use and/or does it differ with each caliber ???   Maybe I'm trying to get too technical here......I'm just asking .  Thanks again,  Horserod

willyr

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 01:02:45 PM »
There is no set rule. You have to shoot the gun at the various ranges and find out what it likes. You didn't tell us what kind of .32 you have or what size ball you're using or what kind of patching material or what patch lube. When I shot a .32 in competition ( Green Mountain barrel), I shot 35 grains ffg GOEX at 25, 50, and 100 yds. Point of aim was the same at 25 & 50 yds., had to aim a little high at 100 yds. This was using a .323 ball, .017" patching lubed with soapy water in a spray bottle, patches cut at the muzzle. This load was arrived at after about 400 shots with different combinations. SHOOT THE GUN.
Bill

northmn

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 05:05:41 PM »
Consider that a 25 yard sight in is nearly worthless for setting up a rifle for longer range use, except to get on the target.  I used to find that the 25 and 50 yard powder settings were the same, but that is if you zero that charge in at 50 yards.  A 32 can be used at longer ranges but I switched to a 40 and later back to a 45.  The wind really plays hob with a light ball like the 32.   I wond a rifle aggregate with one, but still felt I would do better through out the whole season with a larger bore.  Still you can use it but the heavier charges like the 35 grains recommended are needed.  Some use more.  You still have to shoot it at 100 yards to find out what you have.  It better to sight in at longer ranges and then find what they shoot at closer ranges.   I ahve read of "rules of thumb" for powder charges for some time.  They hold for the 45, 50 and 54 whcih are the most popular.  Abut 1/2 the ball weight makes a good charge in those calibers.  As you get into larger bores you will cut back a bit and 40 and under you will want a heavier one.  Some actually use a 1-1 in smaller bores for longer range shooting. 

DP

Horserod

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 07:05:32 AM »
  Thanks guys,  I believe that was the info I needed.....It's back to the range tomorrow !  Best Regards,  Horserod

Daryl

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 07:05:56 PM »
This is not a math test - there is no formula that will work with every gun - as well indicated above by several posters here, testing is what is  necessary. Take the time and do it right - leave the slide rule or calculator at home.  You will need an adjustable measure, or many different non-adjustable measures - start at calibre for charge weight, shoot 50 yards or futher.  What shoots at 25 yards may not shoot accurately at any futher range.

 My .32 gets the load combination(ball/patch/powder), that gives the rifle's best accuracy at 50 yards, then the sights are adjusted to hit centre at that range. Thus, at 25 yards, it is also shooting centre. Nothing is left to chance in that. It's most accurate load is 35gr. 3F GOEX.  With 20gr. 3F, it will put 5 shots at 25 yards into a .40" hole, but - at 50 yards, that load shoots over 2".  Using 35gr., it shoots an honest 1" for 5 shots and that's what it averages at that range.  My other guns follow pretty much the same rule of shooting what is best at 50 yards - works further out and closer in as well - except the .58 Double Rifle and the .69 single.

These two larger bores also get their best accuracy loads - the .58 due to having 2 barrels and one sight, must use the load that regulates, meaning the barrels either converge at a descent range (modern regulation), or shoot parallel, which is mid 1800 perfect regulation. That regulation load hopefully gives good accuracy from each barrel as well - that's a tall order indeed, if one thinks about it.  Luckily, this 'regulation' load is powerful enough for hunting big game and easy shooting for using it on trail walks as well as being very accurate. I was lucky. Most people with these guns are not.  This rifle is also sighted for 50 yards, but holding the diameter of the front bead above the rear notch, gives a 100 yard zero - quite easy to use. A mere 100gr. to 110gr. works in this rifle for all ranges. 100gr. shoots same poi at 50 yards, making the individual barrel diverge exactly 1" at 100yards- which is just fine. With 110gr., it shoots parallel - perfect regulation for a double barreled rifle.

Due to it's greater recoil, the larger, 14 bore rifle is a case unto itself. I use 3drams for plinking, ie; range walks, etc, which is a load that is capable of shooting into 2" to 2 1/2"at 100 yards.  I would not trust such a light load in this rifle further out than that, and certainly not for hunting large game.  Would it kill, yes - but it has too great a trajectory to be useful for hunting - too hard to hit with.  For hunting big game, and for long range target shooting, the light load is doubled.  165gr. gives amazing accuracy to 300yards and more power than needed for whatever I ever might want to shoot with it - ever.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 01:25:58 AM by Daryl »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 06:49:59 PM »
100gr. shoots same poi at 50 yards, making the individual barrel diverge exactly 1' at 100yards-w hich is just fine. With 110gr., it shoots parralel - perfect regulation for a double barreled rifle.

Daryl, do you actually mean 1' @ 100 yds, or 1" @ 100 yds?
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Daryl

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Re: Distance Loads ???
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2011, 01:33:11 AM »
good eye Taylor - and yes-  - I just fixed the problem areas, 3 of them that I saw. Call them typos, brain !@#$% or just plain screw-ups.  I was also missing  "With 20gr. 3F", at the start of the sentence  "It will put 5 shots at 25 yards into a .40" hole etc, in the second paragraph. :)