Re: appalachian mountain gun trigger guards

[Gaeckle]

Trigger Guard Pin:  Most Southern guns had a screw in the front final rather than being pinned.  

Ok...gotta ask....why didn't they pin the guards on? It takes more work to make a screw as opposed to making a pin.....just asking for the sake of curiousity.

[bgf]

Trigger Guard Pin:  Most Southern guns had a screw in the front final rather than being pinned.  

Ok...gotta ask....why didn't they pin the guards on? It takes more work to make a screw as opposed to making a pin.....just asking for the sake of curiousity.

There are some early Southern rifles with pins, especially in the front, but the later ones (almost?) all have screws in both front and rear, at least for iron mounts.  1800 is about the turning point, perhaps, but that is just a guess.  I believe a screw arguably holds better in the rear of the guard than a pin with a thin toe, so that is the first one to get "converted".  Finally, screws may have been made for sell in quantity by the time of the later mountain rifles, and for a hand-forged guard the lugs probably added considerable work.

[Ken G]

The industrial lathe for cutting screws came on the scene around 1799 or 1800?  I imagine it only took a few years for cheap machine made screws to be commonly available.  I'd guess this was a contributing factor in trigger guard mounting changing from pins to screws.   

[bgf]

Ken,
Thanks for separating this -- it seems to come up all the time.  Interestingly, the Bogle rifle (which is early) has pins fore and aft, with what must be a very long lug in the rear -- it appears to be pinned almost halfway up the wrist; just mentioning it as an example people might have access to look at in pictures.  1800 was a guess, but your fact about screw-making machine would help lend it credence as a rough guide.  I also wonder if you think the predominance of set triggers on Southern rifles, which seem to me to weaken the wrist area compared to a simple trigger isn't another reason favoring a screw in the rear of the TG?

[T*O*F]

1800 was a guess, but your fact about screw-making machine would help lend it credence as a rough guide.

If memory serves me right, 1834 is the date that the pointed, self-tapping wood screw came into being.  Prior to that, all wood screw had rounded tips and have to be installed with a gimlet.  If a gun has its original screws, this is one way of dating them.

[smylee grouch]

Thanks TOF for that tip, now can I be the first to ask what a gimlet is?

[Gaeckle]

Thanks TOF for that tip, now can I be the first to ask what a gimlet is?

It's the stuff in turkey gravy??

[Dave B]

The gimlet is a T handled affair that has a boring point in the shape of a sharpened twisted boring point. They are often seen in the antique shops glass cases. They remind me of a flat bladed cork screw.

[Bill of the 45th]

A Martini with an onion, instead of an olive..  Actually a hand drill sized to the screw it is designed for. Have used a larger one to cut the taper for a powder horn plug.

Bill

[Dennis Glazener]

Not sure if you are talking about mountain rifles or the more sophisticated rifles made by full time gun makers but for the mountain rifles I suspect it was two things.

First it was extra work to form the lugs on a hand forged guard. Second drilling two screw holes were easier than drilling the holes for cross pins with a hand drill.
Dennis

[bgf]

1800 was a guess, but your fact about screw-making machine would help lend it credence as a rough guide.

If memory serves me right, 1834 is the date that the pointed, self-tapping wood screw came into being.  Prior to that, all wood screw had rounded tips and have to be installed with a gimlet.  If a gun has its original screws, this is one way of dating them.

Interesting idea.  This link is to a document that looks at old screws taken from American furniture from different periods; might be useful and potentially relevant to long rifles.
http://www.wag-aic.org/Am_Wood_Screws.pdf

[shortbarrel]

we have come from trigger guard tabs to screws. A late friend of mine saw a gunsmith make a screw in very little time. He forged a rod of iron about 6 or 8 inches long and about three sixteenths to one quarter in diameter. Filed out the small diameter and filed the threads. Filed the head and slotted it. Took him about 45 minutes. I have made then this way. As long as you file the pitch right, you have a good screw. It's all in doing it many times.