patchbox problem

[dave gross]

I have one of the very nice side-opening patchboxes with domed lid which I got from Susie at MLBS..it's a lovely thing. The hinge tab of the lid must be attached to the vertical side of the mortice and there lies the problem.  I want to attach the hinge with three small screws and would like to have them fit flush into countersunk holes.  How would one make the pilot holes for the screws enter the wood at 90 degrees?  Due to the cramped quarters the drill must enter the wood at an angle and so the screws won't fit into the countersinks properly. I know that they will be seldom seen but it bothers me every time I look at them.  And don't get me started on driving the little buggers without making a mess of the slots.  I'll take tomorrow off and think about it.  Any help will be appreciated.

Dave Gross

[George F.]

How about heating a shortened nail  and holding it in a pair of pliers and burning a hole in. On the next side opener try angling the cavity side so you'll be able to use a drill bit and screw driver easier. I've also seen a side opener fastened under the lower plate. The tabs would have to be bent at right angles so that hinge would appear to be anchored from the lower plate. The hinge would be sort of stepped.  ...Geo.

[flintriflesmith]

Make a little right angle tool just for this job. File the short leg into a spoon bit form (Half round with a flute in the flat side). You can drill that small pilot hole by rocking the long arm back and forth while pressing in on the bend. A spoon bit drill doesn't need to go completely around to cut.

Gary

[rich pierce]

Good ideas.  Never tried drilling, but burning works for sure and you can taper the hole using a tapered poker.

[flehto]

I use a small Allen wrench, heat it red hot and burn the holes in. I don't ctsk the holes in the  hingeplate because some adjustment is usually needed, anyways for me. I made 3 right angled screw drivers out of suitably sized Allen wrenches and the  "blades" on 2 are 90 degrees apart and the other is at 45 degrees...all in relation to the "handle" or longer leg......Good luck....Fred

[dave gross]

As usual, the response from the members has made the mysterious totally comprehensible.  All of the ideas presented make perfect sense and I will try burning the holes....now why didn't I think of that?  I may also glue a wedge shaped piece into the mortice to angle the hinge tab so that the drill and screwdriver have a better attack angle.   Thanks to all.

Dave Gross

[Pete G.]

The side mounted boxes usually don't attach at 90 degrees. Put a slight angle on the side of the patchbox cavity (maybe 75 or 80 degrees) and everything works out just fine. I mulled over this problem for a week until I came up with this solution, then stumbled across it in "The Gunsmith of Grenville County". I should have done my research first.

[wmrike]

I hadn't researched it enough to know whether or not is is proper, but like Pete I put a bit of an angle on that wall of the cavity.   I don't like cock-eyed screws either.

[dave gross]

The angled sidewall makes perfect sense and I will keep it in mind.  Of course having hogged out the cavity one is left with more or less vertical sides from the spade bit.  I guess a smaller bit offset from center of the mortise and then some chisel work to establish the sidewall angle woud be the best way to go. Thanks again for all the ideas which are all good alternatives. Thanks to all.

Dave

[Benedict]

I will add my vote for the angled side of the box.  When I put mine in, I did just that.  I angled the lower side of the box so I could access it with drills and screwdrivers.  The only problem I had was that I also attached the pop open spring with one of the screws and it kept getting in the way of the screwdriver when I was tightening the screw.  That was a minor problem.  I will do the same on my next side opening box.

Bruce

[Pete G.]

If you have already cut the cavity as large as it will go consider gluing a very thin wedge of wood on the side under the hinge. It will be sandwitched between the hinge and the wood. I keep a supply of popsicle sticks to fabricate shims when something needs just a hair of adjustment. Probably need to go to the store and get another box of dreamsicles to get ready for the next build.

[flehto]

The side opening Pboxes I use are very narrow and angling the wood for the hinge plate still doesn't accommodate a hand held drill. I've found that burning the holes is very fast and has worked on the last 5 side opening Pboxes. Even on a wider side opener, I wouldn't angle the side wall ...burning the holes works so well......Fred

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

I have one of the very nice side-opening patchboxes with domed lid which I got from Susie at MLBS..it's a lovely thing. The hinge tab of the lid must be attached to the vertical side of the mortice and there lies the problem.  I want to attach the hinge with three small screws and would like to have them fit flush into countersunk holes.  How would one make the pilot holes for the screws enter the wood at 90 degrees?  Due to the cramped quarters the drill must enter the wood at an angle and so the screws won't fit into the countersinks properly. I know that they will be seldom seen but it bothers me every time I look at them.  And don't get me started on driving the little buggers without making a mess of the slots.  I'll take tomorrow off and think about it.  Any help will be appreciated.

Dave Gross

Thanks Dave for the compliments! Here is how I go about it!
The whole thing here is based on STARTING that screw so it will go in straight. I made myself a short hardened punch with an angle leg on it. It took me several tries to get it made just right, but I use it all the time now. The angled leg is only enough to get the job done and is not round! Its got corners to add strength and only rounded to a point where it has to punch. I turn my rifle up and down to. Mark, then punch the holes, then I use a screw driver which has a 90 degree leg. You can get these at most automotive shops. If you can find one you can make one out of an old screwdriver.
Susie

[Benedict]

Susie,
         Do you drill a pilot hole or just drive the screws in without?

Bruce

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

I mark them in the hinge layout inside the mortise, remove the door, turn the gun upside down so I can look at what I'm doing, then lightly punch the holes. This little punch strikes a 1/16 pointed hole about 3/16 deep. I tap it first, take it out and look at it, then if it went where I wanted punchit on in. Put the hinge part inside and screw in the first screw, check the opposite end and make sure the door is exactly where you want it, then lightly punch the hole and check again. If it makes me happy, I punch the hole with the part still in. I tried taking it out, but this way works best for me. Don't do the center hole(s) until you know the door is right. If you mess up then you can file the holes slightly and reposition it, then punch and screw in the last screw(s). Always do the outer screws first.
Susie