Flintlock hooked breech systems

[Jerry V Lape]

Trying to find good breeching systems for a hooked breech flintlock.  So far, the best I have found is this:




I have also found a recessed breech which is about the same but requires locks with deeper bolster than those available today.  My plan is to build an English half stock single barrel flintlock shotgun with triple phased barrel (Octagonal, then 16 flats , wedding band then round. 

[blunderbuss]

Looks like it might be hard to clean

[Jerry V Lape]

Thought about that.  I think it might not be too bad. Since I can't figure out how he bored the bulb shape at the end of the antechamber.  If I did use this design the antechamber would be straight sided with a rounded bottom.  Additionally, since this is a hook breech,  pulling the barrel to clean it in a bucket of water would be normal procedure and that should pretty much take care of the cleaning issue.  I am hopeful there are other good solutions to the breeching that I would like to consider as well.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...only if you don't take the barrel off the rifle and put it into a bucket of cold water!  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...beat me to it Jerry.  I suspect that this breech drawing uses lots of "artistic license".  Sometimes this type of breech was bored across from the left side to create that cavity behind the chamber, and then filled with a screw.  But machining it as in the sketch would be interesting to say the least.

[Dphariss]

The Rifle Shoppe has several recessed breech lock designs. If they will answer the phone and have parts in stock.
I made a recessed nock breech and made the standing breech from flat stock to ease fitting then welded on a tang. I used the recessed breech Manton rifle lock from TRS.


After case hardening


The breech is cross drilled as many of the British breeches were. Its necessary when making a Nock chambered breech and I think for making the gold/platinum vent liners.

Like Taylor I often wonder  about some of the old drawings.

Dan

[Don Getz]

Jerry.......we have made over the years many copies of Manton barrels such as you describe.    Copied from an original
barrel sent to us by Lynton McKenzie.   It is full octagon tapered at the breech, going to 16 flats for about 3", then into
a rather fancy set of rings,  then round tapered, going to straight round toward the muzzle....no flair.  Pretty barrels, about 32", or could be made into any length................Don

[Jerry V Lape]

Dphariss,

What advantage is the recessed breech over the breech which is not recessed?  It appears to me to be mostly the slenderizing of the action area? 

Don,

Good to know you make Manton style barrels.  I will check on that possiblilty once I have settled on the gauge desired.  Thanks. 

[Naphtali]

Apparently, patent breech powder cavities are more difficult to clean than simpler breeches. Yet Manton, Nock, and perhaps other best-quality makers used them, the inference being there is a demonstrable, perhaps significant improvement [in what??] having such breeches installed. Please briefly identify/describe what are improvements.
***
And +1 regarding Mr. Lape's question about the "why" of recessed breech.

[Jerry V Lape]

What are the correct names for these breechs - is either a Nock breech?

[Chuck Burrows]

Yes the one on the right is a Knox breech - pic is from George's English Guns & Rifles.

Here is a poor scan of the original Knox Patent Drawing Track and other suppliers offer a good copy



And another drawing of a Knox Breech by Englishman Andrew Courtney plus an external pic of the real thing....
 

 

[Dphariss]

Dphariss,

What advantage is the recessed breech over the breech which is not recessed?  It appears to me to be mostly the slenderizing of the action area? 

Don,

Good to know you make Manton style barrels.  I will check on that possiblilty once I have settled on the gauge desired.  Thanks. 

The claim as a shorter flash path to the main charge.

The real advantage was in narrowing the double shotgun in the lock area.
The recessed Nock breech is actually marginally slower than a flat breech.
BUT it is VERY consistent. Since it was designed for shotguns used for wingshooting CONSISTENCY is very important for lead.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I have heard this theory: Many old drawings of tools and designs were inaccurate purposefully to mislead the reader.

Trade secrets were kept, to keep the money in the family, because the competition for money was fierce, ain't no different that today.