Questions regarding percussion rifles

[Rolf]

I got my permit from the Norwegian police last week and I'm putting together a "kit" for a left handed Fleeger style percussion rifle.
I've ordered a 44", swamped, cal 50 barrel from Rice, a left handed mountain style percussion lock from Chambers, stock blank from Dunlop and hope to get the triggergard + butt plate from Reeves Goering. I plan to make a Monoghela valley patch box.

This is going to be a Fleeger "flavored  fantasy" rifle and not a strict copy of any certain rifle.

Being south paw, the only patent breech availble is the Kit Carson's Hawken 1" Slant Breech & Tang.
 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=143&styleId=516&partNum=PLUG-LH-16-3

I should I chose the Hawken breech or use a drum?

Best regards

Rolf

[blunderbuss]

That's a mighty handsom breech plug and being hook breech it'd be easier to take the barrel off and clean. Your call   

[Rolf]

If it had been a strait breech (not slant), I would definitly chosen the Hawken breech. I've never used a slant breech and I'm unsure if it will cause problems with the style of gun I want to build. It looks like the Kit Carson stocks have a lot more drop in the wrist than the Fleeger rifles.

Best regards
Rolf

[Dphariss]

I always end up bending the tang anyway. Tangs of wax castings are almost aways a little "off".


Dan

[Lucky R A]

Rolf, 
      You might want to re-think the slant breech thing.  The Fleeger rifle you are looking to build isn't a beefy gun.  I just took some measurements from #16 shown in Rosenberger & Kauffaman's book on page #44.  The butt plate is 4-1/8 high the front extension of the butt plate is 2-1/2 (Reaves B.P. is an exact match)  The lock is 4-1/2 long and is 7/8 high.  It of course is a flint rather than percussion.  I have seen Allison guns that had similar dimensions that used a drum and nipple.  The wrist on # 16 is 1-1/8 wide and 1-1/2 high this is pretty darn slim.  If you start using Hawkin parts and a big mountain lock on a Fleeger you might end up with a very beefy gun.   A few other measurements you might need is the Monoghela P.B. on that rifle is 8-1/2 long.  the muzzle  cap is 2" long.  the oval on the cheek piece is 2" long X 1-1/8 high.

Ron

[T*O*F]

Rolf,
You are limited in your choices for LH patent breeches.  However, you need not be and I don't know why it isn't suggested more.  There are a fair selection of flint hook breeches available which allow a gun to be built either RH or LH.  Instead of a touch hole, you can install a drum and nipple into one of these.  Also, the wall thickness of the plug is slightly thicker allowing a bit more thread depth for your drum.  Sometimes you need to think outside the box.

[Dave Faletti]

Using a flint patent breach when using a drum is the only way I care to go when using a drum unless the barrel is very thick. 

 I am not sure that lock can be relieved enough to work with that Hawken breach and have enough metal where the spring anchors.  I thought I asked Chambers about that a long time back but not certain.

[Ky-Flinter]

Rolf,

If you decide to go with a flint hooked breech and a drum, you might check the Hooked Breechs C Wallingford has posted over in the For Sale section.

-Ron

[Rolf]

Thank you all for your input. Alot of food for thought.

Chambers lefthanded mountain percussion lock was the smallest lock I could find. I think its possible to modify it to fit.
The plate measures 4 3/4 x 15/16, which makes it 1/4" longer and 1/16" taller than the original Fleeger lock. From the pictures I've seen of the chamber's lock, I think can take 1/16" of the bottom of the plate and reduce the length with 1/8" .

Deciding what to do with the breech is my toughest problem. The mountain lock is made to fit a 1/2" drum, so installing a drum on a flint patent breech sounds like the best solution. The barrel I've bought is 1" at the breech and threaded 3/4-16. TOTW has  one flintlock patent breech that will fit. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=143&styleId=515&partNum=PLUG-FH-16-3 . It's a Hawken breech. I have searched other suppliers and not been able to find any other options. The tang would have to either modified or a new one welded on. What I like best with this solution is the thick wall on the patent breech that allows more thread depth for the drum. The wall of the patent breech is 0.3575" thick. The barrel wall is 0.250" at the breech.
Comments, ideas or suggestions for other solutions welcome.

Lucky RA, thanks for the extra measurement data. I'll be using the stock pattern I got from you and every bit helps. You mentioned that a hooked breech might make the rifle look beefy. Would modifying the tang solve this?

Best regards
Rolf

[Lucky R A]

Rolf,  My concern with the hook breech was that usually the tang portion is a bit higher than the barrel, reference Taylor's hook breech on the Verner rifle.  What Taylor did was correct for that rifle as the original was indeed made with a hook breech.  The Fleeger has a nice smooth transition into the tang area, as it is a standard solid tang/barrel combo.   If you have safety concerns with a drum into 1" barrel then by all means go with a flint breech, modify and weld up as needed to reflect the look of the original.  Personally I would not be concerned with using a drum right into the barrel.  With a lock properly inletted to support the drum you will not have any problems. I have shot a 45 cal. 13/16 Bedford for the last 10 years,  one match a month and several Rendezvous a year and have never had a problem.  I recently replaced the drum when I noticed some gas cutting starting adjacent to the nipple.  The area of the old drum going into the barrel was still in fine condition.  Drums do not blow out on a regular basis.  Those that do had some serious problems before they let go.

Ron