Author Topic: Water as patch lube  (Read 13836 times)

Offline doulos

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2011, 07:17:03 PM »
interesting thread
In my own experience i have allways shot my best groups with patches either just damped with water or a very light mix of ballistol and water about 7-1. Also with dryer patches of the same mix that have dried out a bit.
All of these have shot better groups than patches lubed with heavier lubes like mink oil. Not saying the groups with the mink oil weren't good. But not quite as good.

Daryl

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2011, 07:32:43 PM »
doulos - that is an interesting observation.

My rifles have generally shot more accurately with water-based lubes, however my tests with Lehigh Valley Lube, showed that particular lube as being every bit as accurate as any water based (spit or WWWF+oil) lubes I'd used and perhaps even had an accuracy advantage over water based in the .45 and .40 cal rifles.
I've done my best shooting with WET patches, just about dripping wet. Wet enough to leave a ring of moisture around the ball when it's seated flush with the muzzle.

On the other hand, my .69 doesn't care which lube is used,, oil, grease or water based, it shoots the same at from 100 to 200 yards- right around the moa to 1 1/2 moa range.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 07:34:02 PM by Daryl »

Offline doulos

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2011, 01:40:59 AM »
Daryl,
    I probably shouldn't have used the word damped. A better word  would have been 'wetted" but not dripping.  But I have had pretty good accuracy with patches that allmost felt dry too from the ballistol mix . But like I believe it was Dan Phariss I had to clean between shots.
     I'm also getting better groups with The TOTW Mink oil since I changed my patch lubing technique.  I used to just put a bit on my finger and rub it in.  Now I melt it in a double boiler and pour it on a plate and lay strips of ticking in it.  When it solidifies I take the strip and lay it on a piece of cardboard and run the dull side of a knife over it pressing out much excess lube as I can.  It seems to lube them a little more consistently.
I  finally picked up a chronograph but have only used it for some handgun loads. I'm going to create some different lots of patches and run em through and see what comes up.

I really liked that Lehigh Valley Lube also. The original stuff was made about 90 miles east of me in Oswego, NY.

Daryl

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2011, 06:02:04 AM »
Good idea on the patch lubing with mink oil.  Too bad LHV isn't available any more.  Some say Shenendoah Valley Lube is identical. I don't know one way or the other.  Hornady's black powder solvent is in the same bottle/container and has the same colour in the adds, if that means anything.
So far, I haven't heard from anyone who's used Hornady's solvent for patch lube.

Offline jim meili

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2011, 11:56:01 PM »
To get some water soluable oil go to a machine shop near you and ask for some. Offer to pay of course, and many places don't know what to charge because they buy it in bulk. It is expensive so offer a reasonable amount of money. Remember, you only need a few ounces to make up a good supply of lube so you don't need to beg for much. Of course they'll ask what you need it for, or offer to tell them and they'll think it's neat that someone is using it to shoot a muzzleloader. I get it from a shop and I throw money in their coffee fund.
I use a two litre soda bottle, add 2 ounces of the oil, 2 ounces of Murphy's Oil Soap and fill with water and shake up. That lasts a long time. It also freezes in the winter so you might have to add some WWWF to stop that.
Use this mix on my shotgun wads at trap shoots as well. Good luck...
Jim

Offline frenchman

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2011, 02:35:50 AM »
i am now using cutting oil called Trim-sol 7 -1 mixe for now it's my best.
 Will be cutting it at 14 -1 for futher test this is strictly summer lube
Denis

arcticap

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2011, 06:17:54 AM »
A Google search for "Napa Cutting Oil" shows it to be one of the most popular water soluble cutting oils for use as a patch lube.
Napa part #WLD 7651526 is a 32 oz. bottle labeled as Napa Soluble Cutting and Grinding Oil that is sold at Napa Auto Parts Stores for $6.99.

Mixed with various percentages of water creates one of the most common forms of moose milk patch lube.
Some folks mix 2 ozs. of cutting oil with 2 ozs. of Murphy's Oil Soap in a 1 litre container of water to make their moose milk.
Some folks say that the mixture turns white without using the Murphy's Oil Soap, but the Murphy's may help to keep the mixture from separating over a long period of time.
One website cautions that because it absorbs moisture, cutting oil can promote rust so it should not be used on gun steel in place of a rust prevention lubricant.

The moose milk mixture can also freeze in cold temps in which case alcohol is claimed to be able to be substituted for the water in the mix.
I'm not advocating the use of any mixture but rather just passing along the information about the popular choice of many over the years to use Napa cutting oil.

http://mamaflinter.tripod.com/id10.html

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=WLD7651526_0068896387&An=0

« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 07:11:38 AM by arcticap »

Daryl

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2011, 06:48:11 AM »
Never hurts to accuracy try a wide variety of lubes.  You might just fine something that shoots better then spit or LHV (but I doubt it-  ::)).

Offline bgf

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2011, 08:44:12 PM »
articap,
Thanks for that part# -- I'll pick up some when I go to NAPA.

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2011, 10:21:42 PM »
All right, for you guys who like spit but don’t produce enough of your own, here is the recipe for the real thing.  Human saliva is 98% water but it contains many important substances, including electrolytes, mucus, antibacterial compounds and various enzymes. To get a true replacement you need:
•   Water
•   Electrolytes:
o   2-21 mmol/L sodium
o   10-36 mmol/L potassium
o   1.2-2.8 mmol/L calcium
o   0.08-0.5 mmol/L magnesium
o   5-40 mmol/L chloride
o   25 mmol/L bicarbonate
o   1.4-39 mmol/L phosphate
o   Iodine mmol/L
•   Mucus. Mucus in saliva mainly consists of mucopolysaccharides and glycoproteins;
•   Antibacterial compounds (thiocyanate, hydrogen peroxide, and secretory immunoglobulin A)
•   Epidermal growth factor or EGF
•   Various enzymes. There are three major enzymes found in saliva.
o   α-amylase (EC3.2.1.1). Amylase starts the digestion of starch and lipase fat before the food is even swallowed. It has a pH optima of 7.4.
o   lingual lipase. Lingual lipase has a pH optimum ~4.0 so it is not activated until entering the acidic environment of the stomach.
o   Antimicrobial enzymes that kill bacteria.
   Lysozyme
   Salivary lactoperoxidase
   Lactoferrin[8]
   Immunoglobulin A[8]
o   Proline-rich proteins (function in enamel formation, Ca2+-binding, microbe killing and lubrication)[8]
o   Minor enzymes include salivary acid phosphatases A+B, N-acetylmuramoyl-L-alanine amidase, NAD(P)H dehydrogenase (quinone), superoxide dismutase, glutathione transferase, class 3 aldehyde dehydrogenase, glucose-6-phosphate isomerase, and tissue kallikrein (function unknown).[8]
•   Cells: Possibly as much as 8 million human and 500 million bacterial cells per mL. The presence of bacterial products (small organic acids, amines, and thiols) causes saliva to sometimes exhibit foul odor.
•   Opiorphin, a newly researched pain-killing substance found in human saliva.

You won’t be historically correct unless you get them all in there.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Daryl

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Re: Water as patch lube
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 05:32:09 AM »
WOW! Well - no wonder it works so well - it's an extremely complicated formula.