Need Help Identifying this Gun

[davec2]

A friend of mine recently came into possesion of the percussion firearm pictured here.  He brought it to me to take a look at it, but I have very limited experience with originals and was hoping someone on this board could help identify it and / or shed some light on its origin.



The bore is .63, rifled with 16 narrow land and grooves.  The barrel is 34.75 inches long and is swamped.  The breech is 1.240" across the flats, the waist is 1.000" and the muzzle is 1.115".  The length of pull is 12 inches (to the front trigger)



The firearm has only two marks of any kind on it that I can find.  The lock is stamped with the letters "R:LM"



The barrel is marked on the underside of the breech with what looks to be a "BN".



Some additiona photos of the gun. 







The barrel has a hooked breech and is retained by three very well made keys.



The gun has a beautifully made, very compact set trigger mechanism.



It also has some odd features.  First there are two bosses on the right side of the muzzle.  One is dovtailed into the barrel side flat and has a male threaded stud.  The other looks to be forged as part of the barrel and has a female threaded hole in it.



The rear sight is made of brass but has two steel leaves.  The lower of the two has a notch and a peep hole.  The talled leaf just has a notch.



The butt stock has been poorly fitted with lead counter weights.  The holes for the weights were drilled off center and it appears the lead was cast in place as the stock cracks that communicate with the lead cavities are filled with lead.  It looks as though the heat of casting cracked the wood and the cracks filled in with lead while it was still molten.



The butt plate has an odd protruding heal screw





The front sight is very low, very close to the muzzle, and is made of brass.



The lock appears to be very well made and still functions prefectly (as do the set triggers).







The barrel has also been 'demiled'. You can see in the next photo a bright metallic dot on the barrel left side just aft of the muzzle.  It is not rusted like the rest of the iron work and is a pin protruding a short distance (~0.100") into the bore and filed flush with the barrel flat (although it looks like stainless steel to me, it is flush with the barrel, which is rusted uniformly, and there are no file marks on the barrel around the pin).  There are three of these pins along the length of the barrel, all on the left side.  They do not alter the outside appearance much but render the bore un- shootable.  I have no idea why anyone would do this except to make it unservicable.  The photo of the bore shows one of the pins protruding into the bore ID.







Any help identifying this firearm would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave C

[cal.43]

I think itīs a swiss made rifle with the bayonet clamp is missing. That the only picture I found.

[flintriflesmith]

Hard to tell exactly the country of origin since there don't seem to be any standard proof marks but it appears to be a central European military rifle from the mid-nineteenth century. May be one of those built on contract for a private militia type unit.

Gary

[Stophel]

Swiss military/militia rifle. Common type.  Made for a bayonet, but I don't know exactly the form of it.

[halfstock]

 :-\Ya'll look at that sucker real close, it favors a late jager to me. ?

Halfstock

[Feltwad]

I would say this rifle is built from parts of other rifles including military pieces of mostly European manufacture by some early gunsmith in the States.
Feltwad

[Bill of the 45th]

There's a similar type rifle that just came into our local gun shop, so I doubt it's a parts gun.  I'll try and get pictures tomorrow to compare to this one.  This one has the same type rifeling, and design, but has a bayonet lug.  Heavy as heck, about 18 or 20 pounds.  I'm going with Swiss, German or Scandinavian, mid 19th century, as my guess.

Bill

[Majorjoel]

From the looks of this piece, I would say it isn't exactly a lightweight either! Apart from the very strange\unusual barrel hardware at the muzzle end (bayonette apparatus ??) I strongly feel this rifle was used strictly for target use. The weight is the identifiing factor. It also looks to be a conversion from original flintlock ignition. Just my 2 cents.

[Stophel]

The heel stud is a Swiss trait.  A carry over from the iron studs/spikes/balls in the heel of cheek stock wheel lock rifles (to set the rifle on the ground when loading).

[doug]

Swiss military/militia rifle. Common type.  Made for a bayonet, but I don't know exactly the form of it.

     While I think it may be Swiss, I also think the stock may have been shortened a trifle and the lead added sometime afterwards.  The rear sight is typtical of the 1851 Swiss rifle  while the stock I think is of its predecessors.  Both the 1838 percussion gun and the 1851 percussion gun had removeable trigger guards; screw at the back and internal hook in the front apparently to permit adjusting the set triggers.  My 1838 rifle has the name of the city/state deeply stamped into the side of the butt and remember that Switzerland did not become unified until 1848

cheers Doug

[mr. no gold]

Some collectors and shooters, I have known, have called this type of rifle a 'Swiss Federal' gun. They shoot quite well and are said to be a lot of fun. Don't know any of the history about them, but just have always assumed that they are military pieces, or perhaps used by Turn Verein athletic clubs.
Dick

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
I assume everyone noticed the lock is a conversion from flint.  CapJoel noticed.  The plate has the screw hole for the feather (frizzen) spring.  So it may be central European or Swiss but it probably was built no later than 1835 or 1840 and I suspect quite a bit earlier.

dave

[Stophel]

I'm thinkin' in the 1820-30 range.

[doug]

Some collectors and shooters, I have known, have called this type of rifle a 'Swiss Federal' gun. They shoot quite well and are said to be a lot of fun. Don't know any of the history about them, but just have always assumed that they are military pieces, or perhaps used by Turn Verein athletic clubs.
Dick

     The Swiss federal rifle is identical except in caliber to the second rifle I posted.  Mine is a whitworth bore of .47 cal while the federal rifle is .41 cal with a conventionally rifled bore and shoots and elongate slug.

cheers Doug