Getting started

[James]

I've always thought the adage that "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" was quite asinine. So I will ask. I have seen posts about a Beck being worth $60K, other makers $15K. A for sale add of a gun for $25K and other guns much less than that. Another post of a store find at what appears to be less than $200. I don't have the money to spend 5 figures on a gun, but would like to start looking for originals. Can good ones be found that the average man could afford? Is it style that costs, or strictly specific makers? Can architecturally superior pieces still be had, for less than $5000, if they are not signed or attributed?  Can decent guns be had for under $1000? Where can they be found? Would it pay to contact auctioneers to express interest in knowing of guns they find? I ask where because I am a habitual ad reader and have in 2 decades seen old muzzle loading guns in one auction ad up here. I looked on the Gun broker website and there were a couple, but appeared to be mostly antique cartridge guns. So finally, I ask how would you suggest getting started? Thanks, James

[smokinbuck]

James,
Yes, Yes and yes. Many good collectable guns can be bought for $1000 or less. The ones you are talking about are the exeptions not rule. Remember, owners can ask whatever they want to but the buyers dictate the value. Good plain half stocks can be found that will sometimes have more historic value than the big dollar full stock flints that were made for the affluent and hung over a fireplace. The plain little half stock probably defended and fed a family. These can be found with makers names and good provenence. We hold an annual meeting in Marrietta, and Newark Ohio every April and October and there are always a few guns that change hands. Don't be discouraged, it can be done.
Mark

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

Try the "Gallery" on this site. Also place a wanted ad in the For Sale/ Wanted forum on this site. Perhaps the best way is to go to shows, join the KRA so that you can go to KRA mini shows. All prices are potentially negotiable. "Artistic Merit", maker ( particularly signed), restoration are key features amongst others that determine price...don't forget the "market" and an individuals need for funds. Glad to welcome a new collector. Please add whatever you own to the Museum on this site.
Hurricane

[gibster]

To second smokinbuck, there are rifles out there that can be bought for reasonable prices.  There is an ad in the for sale section listing quite a few, starting at $1050 and going up from there (not my add by the way).  Plain rifles were the mainstay for both defense and for food and probably did more for settling our nation than all the fancy ones out there.  I'm sure that in my family history (going back to 1671 in this country), the rifles were considered tools to feed and defend, not show pieces to carry to a shoot once in a while.  While the fancy rifles are nice to study and admire, in my opinion, the plain ones have to hold a place of honor for their roll in bringing us to where we are today.

[mr. no gold]

All of the above suggestions are good ones that you should take seriously. To these, let me add the following: Attend all estate sales, yard sales and garage sales in your region. Do talk to the auctioneers and let them know what your interests are. Ask at each of the suggested places, I have mentioned. If you don't ask, they for sure won't have it. Go to the gunshops, and antique shops/dealers and ask around. You would be surprised what those people know. Unless you are well known, few, to none, of these old guns will come to you. You have to get out there and work at it.
I live in an area that is far drier than yours for good old guns, and even so I have found some jewels. Afterwhile you will develop a sense for it and the thrill of the hunt. Oh yes, one thing more, if a shop has a good gun that you want, use the lay-away method; most have it. It usually goes for 90 days and that can lessen any financial impact. This advice comes from 50 years of experience, by the way. Take it or leave it, there is no charge.
Dick

[James]

I want to thank you all for your advice. The hunt has begun.

[JTR]

No gold, the guy above, has also stolen a few good rifles that should have been mine,,, had I just got there before him,,,, so watch your Friends!  

Another thing, study the types of guns made, and decide just what you like and want in a rifle or pistol. Rifles without patchboxes generally sell for less than those that have one, so if you decide you like the look of a box on a gun, don't buy one without one just because it's inexpensive. Saving your money and finding a gun with a nice patchbox on it will make you a lot happier with your purchase in the long run.
Putting an ad here might work out well also. I'm sure there are guys here, myself included, that have a few inexpensive rifles hanging around. Those guns might not be in pristine condition, so it would depend on what you're looking for, but making your wants known is a good first step.

Generally speaking, the fancier the gun the higher the price. Guns in fine condition are worth more than lesser grades. Signed with a makers name adds a bit, signed with a well known maker name brings more, and signed with a Great makers name even more yet.
Realistically it's easy to spend 25/30 thousand on a good rifle, but a big name dealer that I know has said many times that he makes most of his sales on guns in the 2 to 3 thousand dollar range. There's literally thousands of rifles out there in this price range,,, you just need to get hooked up with them,,,, preferably before your Friend does.

Look through the Library here and try to make a mental list of the attributes that you like. When you have questions, just ask here, or PM any of the collectors here and I'm sure you'll get your answers.

John

[HIB]

Sir,   You will find volumes of ideas on this site. We have all been in your shoes and some of us have learned the hard way. We all have a war story because making a mistake in this collecting culture is almost second nature.

Take your time. Learn the various schools or become familiar with the gunsmiths who worked near were you live and then proceed with a self taught interest. Always buy the best you can afford and remember the best advice I ever was given....... "It's not how many....But how good !"

Best of luck,  HIB

[Shreckmeister]

A local antique dealer in my own town just sold a longrifle with a Goulcher lock for
$175 in good condition and an Ames Cavalry sword for $120.  I of course called him 2 days after they sold.  He admitted he had no idea what they were worth.
I asked him to call me first the next time he comes across one.

[Spotz]

I suggest that the best first purchases you can make are books, books and books.  You need to know what you are buying before you buy.  Second, you want to keep the impulse to buy under control and try to inspect as many guns in person as you can get your hands on.  The third bit of advice is to buy the absolute best thing you can buy after you figure out what you like.  If you buy quantity, you will end up with a bunch of so-so guns that will be difficult to sell, if your tastes change.  Just say no until you are comfortable with buying the first, best gun you like.  Easy advice to give, but hard advice to follow for all new collectors. 

[James]

Spotz, thanks for the tips. I have been buying books, as part of my education and trying to get architecture right on my build. I have found the type/style that draws me and is pushing me to find originals. There are many more that interest me very little. I fully agree with your advice to wait for what I want. The advice from Mr. Bishop says it well "It's not how many... But how good." However, if in looking, I find a gun that I don't like, but may be a stepping stone (i.e. could be sold at a profit to finance one of my desired styles,) I will likely take a chance. I thank all of you again.