Gouge Question for Inletting

[Rasch Chronicles]

Ok,

I am going through the Woodcraft pfeil Swiss Gouges in preparation for my inletting adventures.

Imagine my surprise, when I notice that the bevel is on the outside of the gouge's curve.

O, I can dig the geometry of the cutting edge for wood removal, especially as carving goes. But if you are outlining the lockplate, and shaveing down, wouldn't the bevel be on the inside? Look, don't laugh, I only call it as I see it! LOL! I wanted to refer to Mr Okie's Chunk Gun Tutorial, but I can't pull up pictures due to some idiot in IT the rates the images as "violence, violent, guns." I'm in a war zone for crying out loud!!! Don't even get me started... @!*% pencil pushing computer geeks.

While we are at it, which handles would be best for inletting a lock? Straight or palm?

Would someone please be so kind as to ellucidate and illuminate on said subject? I would really appreciate it.

Only six, seven weeks till R&R and it's going to be like Christmas when I get home!!! I'll post pictures!

Best regards,
Albert “The Afghan” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
Feral Bull Fighting: Another Chronicles Adventure!

[Rolf]

For inleting of the lockplate at the very edge of the mortise, I use straight chisels where possible. I have a 3mm( 1/8"), 6mm(1/4"), 10mm(3/8").
I use pfeil gauges where tight curves make it necessary. The bevel is not a problem. Use small gauges and angle the chisel so the bevel is vertical and cut shallow.

Best regards
Rolf

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I usually use palm carving tools I seem to get better control. I'm sending a link that has an entire building tutorial but on the second page he has an interesting method of inletting sideplat, and trigger plate. http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=6214
Hope some of this will be useful to you.
Micah

[woodwright]

In-cannel (inside bevel) gouges are made by Two Cherries and Henry Taylor. You just have to search the web for suppliers. Two are below.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/In-Cannel-Firmer-Gouges-by-Henry-Taylor/products/226/

http://www.diefenbacher.com/Special%20Chisels%202.htm

Woodwright

[Martyman]

Albert

I have never had a problem with the bevel on the outside. You just have to hold it at a little bit of an angle. As for your question about handles..... I think its just what feels best to you. I have some Pfeil palm tools and i love them. You can still use a mallet with them if you need too, But I also have some long handled tools. Its just a matter of which one fits the job and my mood at the time. I think my mentor has built a hundred guns with her well worn Pfeil palm tools.

Marty

[rich pierce]

I made a round gouge with the bevel on the inside specifically for cutting the inlet for lockplate "noses".  In the long run it's worth it to have a few specialized tools.  This was made from 5/16" drill rod, forged to a flat spade shape at the end, then curved by pounding it down into a piece of iron pipe cut in half.

[Meteorman]

Albert -
I too never noticed a problem using outer bevel on inlets, but there is also an alternative school of carving and inletting tecnique that might further address your concerns.
Instead of stabbing in the outline first, and worrying about the bevel crushing fibers or sliding in the wrong direction, some promote first removing waste wood very near to, but not quite up to, the inlet margin with, say, a largish shallow gouge.
IOW, FIRST scoop out a channel of wood at the red areas in the lock inlet below, very near to the pencil line.



Then, when you subsequently stab in the outline, the thin ridge of waste wood on the inner side of the inlet has a void to freely move to, helping promote a more true stab cut. 
I think this is mostly promoted for relief carving by some, where you would remove the background very near to the margin of the design, before stabbing in the actual edge of the design.

Having said that, I've done it both ways (stab first or stab second), and for an inlet, I've never noticed much difference in the final job.
/MM

[gunsports]

Another idea: After removing most 'waste' wood, use a very thin, very sharp hobby knife. Lay the part down on the wood and cut down with the knife next to the edge. A thin blade will not give a noticeable gap and the minute play helps to prevent future cracks when the wood swells.

[blunderbuss]

 

Just use a small straight chisels I've done alot of guns and some where in my shop is a round ended one but I almost never use it unless I'm making spoons. some are tiny but all are straight that I use to inlay.

[Rasch Chronicles]

Thanks fellows,

Phew! I was worried there for a minute that if I didn't all seventeen sweeps, and one of each straight in both single and double bevel, I was doomed to abject failure!

Seriously, I should have realized that good work can be done with a minimum of equipment. $#*!, here in Afghanistan, I've done so much, for so long, with so little, that I am now qualified to do anything with nothing!

Ok then, I have all the basic chisels then, and if I make a couple of dedicated scrapers, I should be ok.

Thanks again for all your good advice and experience!

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
We Build a Pirogue!

[flintriflesmith]

All my gouges are sharpened with the bevel on the outside. That's probably because I use them much more for carving than inletting but I've never seen a need for having one with the bevel on the inside. In carving or cutting a ramrod grove that would make the gouge want to dig in to the work, sort of like using a graver with no heel. Keeping the gouge from digging in would require an extremely low angle of attack --- so low that the handle on a straight chisel would probably bump the stock.

When stamping straight in, such as around the nose of a lock inlet, it is simple to tilt the gouge so the bevel is perpendicular to the lock panel.
Gary

[Rasch Chronicles]

Gary,

Ohhhh, like carving straight down. Now I get it. You have to hog out the waste first from the inside out, then creep up on the inlet line.

You see, it all works out if you let it.

Thanks Amigo, much obliged!

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
We Build a Pirogue!

[Jim Kibler]

Albert,

I dont' think it's a good idea to creep up on a line when inletting.  There are many methods which can result in a good job.  I don't always use the same methods depending on the nature of the part.  One thing that should be common to all techniques is efficiency.  Inletting is a very basic gunmaking skill and should be mastered. 

The process I use for something such as a lock plate is as follows: 

-File draft on edge of plate
-position plate on wood and scribe around with a very sharp scribe
-Use a veiner to cut a chanel inside the scribed line
-Use appropriate chisels and gouges to outline the inlet by placing them in the scribed line and sink to depth (I just use hand and body force to sink the chisels)
-remove wood from inside the inlet.  Cut very close to full depth before thinking of fitting the part.
-Attempt to fit part to stock, cut any tight spots and further level background with transfer color.
-Use transfer color until full depth is achieved

A few notes: 

If done well, the part will often fit on the first try.  Process that require a great deal of fitting and trimming are not efficient. 

The goal should be to limit the amount of time using spotting compound.  People sometimes seem to become obsessed with this stuff and spend a great deal of time fitting with it.

The ideal inlet should have smooth cut edges (not torn or ragged) and a reasonably level background.

A large degree of contact between the part and the bottom of the inlet is not necessary.  If the part has reasonable contact here and there and doesn't wobble around it is good enough.

[Stophel]

I inlet lockplates (and everything else) by tracing around it with a knife, then back cutting with an ordinary chisel to the knife-incised line..... except for the front end, where I do stab with a gouge.  Hard to turn that knife around like that.  I just use a regular gouge, I don't have an in-gouge that size, which, technically, would be better.

I do have a small quarter inch in-gouge that I got from Track of the Wolf, and it can be VERY handy for a few oddball tasks.  I use it sometimes for ramrod groove work and other things here and there.

[Rasch Chronicles]

Fellows,

Thanks again for all the tips and techniques you have offered. It really helps when trying to get everything ready and making a plan for it.

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch   
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles’ Top Ten!