cannon load ( Pics Added)

[jeff birkey]

A friend of mine picked up a cannon with about an 1 1/4" bore. What would be a  good charge to start out with just to go boom (for now, projectile later)

Here are some pics.  The barrel is 30" long. He can't find a maker but it does have a serial number.

Thanks
Jeff

[Trkdriver99]

I would start about 300-350 grains and work from there.

Ronnie

[Dphariss]

A friend of mine picked up a cannon with about an 1 1/4" bore. What would be a  good charge to start out with just to go boom (for now, projectile later)?

Thanks
Jeff

Don't use powder finer than FG in this bore size.

You need to study loading processes and satety measures as well.
http://artillerymanmagazine.com/safety_rules.html
Dan

[jeff birkey]

Thanks guys,
I picked him up a can of 1f from Friendship on Tuesday.  I will give him the web address for the artillery site it has some great information.

Thanks again
Jeff

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Ronnie is right on with his advice, as far as I'm concerned.  We have a gun with a 1 1/2" bore.  We use between 300 and 500 grains of Fg and a 1.4" WW lead ball.

[wmaser]

I use 500 grains of FFg in my 1 1/2" swivel guns and up to 1000 grains in my 2" Napoleon

[zimmerstutzen]

The thing you didn't tell us is what is important.  A 1.25 bore is only part of the description we need.  What is the tube made from, how long, how thick are the barrel walls, is the bore lined. 

There have been a number of "cannon" accidents due to folks trying to shoot water pipe cannons, barrel walls to thin, from the wrong material, etc. 

There are some safety considerations spelled out by a hobby artillerist organization.

About 10 years ago, a guy near here was firing blank salutes at a family picnic with a home made cannon.  It blew killing a relative and he is did a few years in the state pen. for negligent homicide.

I have seen cannons made with old steam pipe, aluminum tubing and other suspect things.     

I have a 1.25 bore bronze cannon made at a foundry near Lancaster Pa.  The barrel walls are an inch thick at the muzzle and at the breech, there is two inches of barrel wall as well as two inches between the exterior end and the interior bore.     

Have the cannon checked out carefully before even attempting a blank load.


 

[Dphariss]

The thing you didn't tell us is what is important.  A 1.25 bore is only part of the description we need.  What is the tube made from, how long, how thick are the barrel walls, is the bore lined. 

There have been a number of "cannon" accidents due to folks trying to shoot water pipe cannons, barrel walls to thin, from the wrong material, etc. 

There are some safety considerations spelled out by a hobby artillerist organization.

About 10 years ago, a guy near here was firing blank salutes at a family picnic with a home made cannon.  It blew killing a relative and he is did a few years in the state pen. for negligent homicide.

I have seen cannons made with old steam pipe, aluminum tubing and other suspect things.     

I have a 1.25 bore bronze cannon made at a foundry near Lancaster Pa.  The barrel walls are an inch thick at the muzzle and at the breech, there is two inches of barrel wall as well as two inches between the exterior end and the interior bore.     

Have the cannon checked out carefully before even attempting a blank load.


 

Using fine grained powder, even for a blank, can cause excess pressure. In most guns FG is fine grained. Anyone who has seen "Cannon" granulation knows what I mean. Larger guns of the 1850s and later used very large grained powder some, individually pressed to shape, were the size of small apples according to period descriptions.
I occasionally attend a shoot that they open with the firing of a home made cannon. Short barrel but think its 2"+ bore.
Watching the owner load it by heavily packing the load with a heavy iron rammer my son and I retreated to the parking lot so I have more cover, I figured between the crowd and the cars only falling debris would reach us and I found a friend there doing the same thing.
Had I gone to the owner and told him that this was "unwise" I would have been rebuffed so its easier to just retreat.
I have watched people shooting 1 pound or maybe more of FG  from a full size repro field piece. I did not get very close. The concussion was pretty amazing even at 50 yards or so. Today, being wiser, I would have retreated further.



Actual grain sizes.
Cannon Grade 0.1874-.066
1FG .066-0.046

Only 12% of Cannon is allowed to pass the smaller screen.
Cannon is significantly slower than FG. The difference is greater than that between the various "F" grades.
FF is twice as fast as F and so on. 

Dan

[Daryl]

Good information, Dan - it is/was needed.  We've also seen a flurry of home made cannons - large and small bores  appearing on the firing line, with their owners knowing nothing about cannons or their feeding.

We are all lucky the larger bores produce low pressure - but there's a large IF attached - IF THE PROPER GRANULATION IS USED.

I have not seen and small bore cannon-grade powders since Meteor or maybe it was ICI 1F was available.  It is close to  4X larger grained than 1F GOEX, with smoothly rounded exteriors, not angular granuals at all. It is also super dense. I still have some - perhaps 1/3rd pound- don't know why, but I do.

[LynnC]

All good advise but I really would like to second the thoughts of Zimm and Dan.

I would want to know exactly how that tube was made.

As well as the Artillery Man, I can highly recomend the catalog from South Bend Replicas.  (Southbendreplicas.com)  Great safety info plus they show a bunch of sawn length wise cannons that looked fine on the outside but were unbelieveably dangerous.  Casting voids and spark traps just to name a couple of problems discovered.  After seeing some of junk out there you might not want to shoot it at all if you don't know the manufacturers reputation for quallity.

I'm sorry to be a downer but I'd hate for someone to lose a hand or worse.
Lynn

[jeff birkey]

Thanks for all the responses. I will get more info.

Jeff

[ottawa]

also check and see if the bore was casted or bored out a cased bore maye or will have pitts wich is bad ju ju in a cannon holds emmbers or sparks  . needles to say loading a charge on embers is not good on the loader.

[LynnC]

Please do post anything you find out about your friends cannon purchase.  Method of manufacture, maker, material, etc....

There are a lot of small to full scale cannons out there.  Some well made, some not.  We should do anything we can do to promote their safe use and if deemed unsafe, discourage their use.

Another good book is "The Complete Cannoneer" I think by Matt Switlick - can't find my copy at present.  Good safety instruction.

Lynn

[zimmerstutzen]

The NSSA has some rules for model artillery as does:

http://www.americanartillery.org/aaa/marty.html

[LynnC]

Good looking piece but can't tell much from the pictures.  Appears to be cast iron tube with a cast in liner or a drilled and sleeved bore.  More side view pics please.  You might put a snug fitting rod down the vent and look down the bore to see if the bore is centered side to side.  You can do a little measuring with the rod and figure if the bore is centered vertically too..............Lynn

[KNeilson]

It is close to  4X larger grained than 1F GOEX

  I recently bought a half doz tins of Goex 1F for a similar purpose and was suprized at how close to 2f it looks like. Not quite the "pea" sized granules I expected... Or about the BB sized that Daryl describes. Is it possible to add a filler/buffer of sorts  to alter pressures?....    Kerry

[davec2]

Cannon grade Goex is substantially coarser grained than 1F.  And "lift powder" is available in an even coarser grade.  I use either one in a 2.75 inch bore gun.


Goex cannon grade:



Lift powder:

[hugh]

All that is stated above is correct, use correct powder and charge, be careful of the tube (don't want cracks or poor manufacture) and for gods sake pay careful attention to the loading of the piece. Several years ago now had friend lose all but his thumb, loading to soon after discharge the load load broke open on reload and caught spark and discharged, it caused the loss off his hand. So b careful! Load no more than one round every two minutes. Sorry for the scare just seen the damage.

[jeff birkey]

Thanks to all for the good advise. I've been building and shooting black powder rifles for 30 years, but I've never fired a cannon.  And I do plan to keep all my fingers. 
I printed off a copy of the cannon regulations to give to my friend along with the advise you all have given.

Thanks Again
Jeff