Napa cutting oil

[David G]

Just playing around with lubes. For those with experience with Napa oil, can it be used basically like Ballistol? For instance, I'm going for a dry patch lube for  hunting  and thought about trying different ratio's of water to Napa oil as you would use with Ballistol. Napa oil is readily available for me where as Ballistol, not so much. Thanks.....

[Daryl]

I am wondering why a dry lube would be suggested for hunting where wiping before you can reload it, is going to be necessary.

Be a nasty situation if you were just starting to wipe your bore, when a pack of wolves or a grizzly showed up - or 5 grizzlies, as happend to a couple bow hunter friends of mine.  That experience retired them from bow hunting.

[David G]

Unlikely here Daryl as I'm in N. Georgia. lol...  but coyotes and black bear on the other hand.... Personally, I never feel danger  entering the woods in my area due to the animals around here. I can see where it would be a concern for others in other parts of the country.

[Jerry V Lape]

I tried that Dutch Shultz thing with the Napa cutting oil and water to make prelubed patches.  Only problem was I could never retrieve any of the patches to see how the lube was working.  I could just watch them sending up little whiffs of smoke as they finished burning on the ground. 

[Daryl]

About the only guys I know of which can shoot a dry patch successfully, are those loading well oversized balls with very thick teflon patches, ie: .022", mostly through false muzzles and in match rifles only, and cleaned between shots. 

I firmly believe that a load used in a hunting rifle should allow at least 3 shots without having to be wiped.  I believe it is the hunter's reponsibility to kill the animal as quickly and as cleanly as possible. There are times when a coup-de-grasse is required, animal on the ground, back broken, legs broken, hit through the neck, still a alive, struggling to get up, wild terror in it's eyes, bleating or whatever. It is our duty to finish that animal as quickly as possible. I just don't think that can occur if the bore must be wiped prior to the gun being loaded.

[SCLoyalist]

I tried Dutch Schulz's method,  but at the time I couldn't locate water soluble machinist's oil and didn't know Ballistol was water soluble, so I substituted olive oil for the machinist's oil (plus a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent stirred in so the olive oil would mix  with the water).   I got the results Dutch's instructions predicted - a noticeable tightening of groups at a particular ratio (7:1 water to oil, as I recall).     And, the patches felt dry.   Now,  on other guns I've tried the same thing and ended up just doing a spit patch because spit patches shot as good or better than any of the oiled 'dry-lube' stuff I could come up with.

I have a new acquisition rifle I want to take hunting next month, and tomorrow expect to head for the range with some 'dry patching' to see how it shoots in that gun.

Good luck in finding what works best with your gun.  SCL

[David G]

Thanks guys. I went ahead and picked up a little Napa oil and will run a 5/1, 6/1, 7/1, water/oil ratio and see what I come up with. Jerry, I've noticed the same thing with the patches getting hot and burning somewhat especially with the heavier charges and at that point I've had good luck using a wad to prevent burning. On the otherhand I've taken the charges up pretty high, high enough to feel comfortable in using it as a hunting load and have experienced no burning. I'm working with a rifle right now and that's where I hope to get with it, excellent accuracy,ample power and patches intact.Whether or not this will be possible without using a wad will have to be tested on the range. With this system, there is a point where you will experience burning due to the amount of powder you pour down the barrel and the amount of oil in the patch. I've also experienced some outstanding groups from a rest at 50 yds with the patches being blown so go figure that one. I've tried many lubes including some of the animal oils but have experienced my best groups with water/oil and spit lubes and would prefer to go with the water/oil for hunting although teflon is on the list..... Again, just playing around. David G.

[T*O*F]

I went ahead and picked up a little Napa oil

Dutch quit recommending NAPA oil well over a decade ago because it was changed to a synthetic formulation and did not perform like the old stuff did.  At that time, he started recommending Ballistol.

I couldn't locate water soluble machinist's oil and didn't know Ballistol was water soluble

Ballistol is not water soluble.  It forms an emulsion.  There is a difference.

5/1, 6/1, 7/1, water/oil ratio

As a point of interest, Dutch's ratio mixture was for target shooting only, not hunting, and he wiped between shots.  He never hunted a day in his life.  If you use the patches wet, then the water is the principal lube.  If you allow the water to evaporate, a percentage of the oil is left impregnated in the patch.  It's really just picking nits.  The real value of his system is to instill a repeatable, disciplined approach to shooting.  That is the key to its success, not the patch lube one uses.

[David G]

.......did'nt know the Napa oil was synthetic based. Thanks.

[Dphariss]

I am wondering why a dry lube would be suggested for hunting where wiping before you can reload it, is going to be necessary.

Be a nasty situation if you were just starting to wipe your bore, when a pack of wolves or a grizzly showed up - or 5 grizzlies, as happend to a couple bow hunter friends of mine.  That experience retired them from bow hunting.

I would never use a dry lube for hunting. No need. Its possible to find very accurate lubes that will allow several shots or even many, in a row with no wiping or other difficulty. A lube like Neatsfoot or tallow also helps seal the bore if snow or water gets in the bore.

A guy in Wyoming shot 3 Griz last year in two elk hunts. They came to the sound of the shot and in one case beat the hunters to the elk. This is more common in some places than many people realize.
We have not had any bowhunting incidents that I have heard of this year. But bears are coming the"cow calls" etc to kill an elk and find a hunter at maybe 3-5 yards and its not always pleasant.

People in the east need to remember that Black Bears not only kill people they also eat them in many cases. Sometimes without killing them first. Documented by at least one survivor who was partly eaten before being rescued.
Big cats also kill people.
Then there is rabies.
And people....
When you enter the forest, if its larger than a wood lot, you become part of the food chain.

Dan

[Dphariss]

I tried that Dutch Shultz thing with the Napa cutting oil and water to make prelubed patches.  Only problem was I could never retrieve any of the patches to see how the lube was working.  I could just watch them sending up little whiffs of smoke as they finished burning on the ground. 

My GM 50 needs a patch over the powder with 90 gr of FFF Swiss. Then the patches are perfect.
The McLemore does not with 90 or 100 grains of FF Swiss. I am going to make a new batch of WS mix and try some traditional lubes as well when the rifle is finished.
Patches are perfect except for frayed edges.

Dan

[Dphariss]

The dry WS oil system increases the load inertia due to friction. This helps ALL BP loads in that in makes them more consistent. Be it in PRB guns, bulleted MLs or BPCR.

Dan

[Jerry V Lape]

I gave up on the dry lube system completely.  For hunting (my main interest w/flintlock) I have gone to SPG lube rubbed into the barrel side of the patch.  I can get several loads without wiping with this if necessary for a quick follow up shot and it cleans up easily.  Accuracy seems to be as good as anything else I shoot.  At the range I use ballistol/water mixture. 

[Maven]

All, I believe Dutch Schoultz no longer recommends the use of NAPA cutting/machining oil because some of its ingredients (He never told me which ones.) are incompatible with BP shooting.  He currently specifies Ballistol and water mixtures in the same proportion as previously .