Author Topic: Pistol Grip Hawken (Read 8084 times)

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **on:** November 12, 2012, 07:30:03 PM »

Bob Roller asked me to upload these three pictures of a great Hawken rifle. Photobucket has a new format that I haven't figured out yet, so bear with me.

alyce-james · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2012, 08:31:19 PM »

Good morning Sir; I like this style rifle. Thanks for sharing. AJ

KLMoors · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2012, 10:34:18 PM »

Yup, photobucket is always "improving".

What is the back story on this gun.

Thanks for the pics.

Dave B · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2012, 07:27:34 AM »

Thanks for posting these shots. I like how they did the sight base on that tang sight. Its a separate unit dovetailed into the tang. I think thats what I am seeing. There is a clear line of color where the base attaches to the tang of the standing breach.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2012, 05:32:25 PM »

Thanks to Bob, and Taylor, I have wanted to see some good pictures of this gun ever since I saw it in Wilson's book. I also would love to know a little history on this great rifle.

Hungry Horse

Dphariss · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2012, 06:08:04 PM »

This is not the rifle from "Steel Canvas" by Wilson
There is another virtually identical rifle, different tang sight, barrel sights and straighter rear trigger, in "The Wm Locke Collection" pg 493. This might be the rifle in Wilson's book due to the large rear sight.
There is also a near identical PG rifle on display at Cody that has no tang sight in place.
It is pictured in the museums online collection and can be zoomed in to for closer looks.
http://old.bbhc.org/collections/bbhc/ImageViewer.cfm?object_key=23579&img=%2Fcanon1d2005%2F1997.4.15v1.jpg
I looked at the photos of these PG guns a couple of years ago and there are apparently 3.
As a result I would love to know for what purpose these three virtually identical rifles were made and for who.

Dan

SPG · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2012, 06:15:56 PM »

Taylor,

My favorite Hawken, hands down.

I would REALLY like to know what the twist is that rifle...much information could be derived from knowing that.

Steve

bgf · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2012, 12:26:02 AM »

Am I seeing things or is there a "beavertail" (wider at bottom and almost flat on sides, sloping in to the barrel) type shape to the forearm? It is one fantastic Hawken, whatever it is.

Did they make such rifles for dandies or very successful market hunters to "hunt" buffalo with? That might explain the tang sight (and the high rear sight), esp. if it has a large caliber and/or fast twist as if for a conical. Or is that too late for Hawken? I got the idea of such a thing in Noble (looking for something else this morning) where there is a rifle by Templeton Reid called a "Buffalo Rifle".

T*O*F · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2012, 12:45:42 AM »

Brent Danielson is the guy who is building this rifle. He was on the forum last year seeking information about components. He's probably the one that Bob is building the lock and triggers for. That may be where he got the pictures from, but I think that Brent posted them when he was here before. He's mainly a BPCR shooter so he doesn't hang out here much.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2012, 02:04:20 AM »

I made the lock and triggers for Brent some time ago and I
was wondering what the status of that project is. This rifle
has a sort of "Frontier Elegance" that sets it apart from the
usual perception of the Hawken rifle.

Bob Roller

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2012, 05:22:48 PM »

I've only had the extreme pleasure of handling one original Hawken, but I've studied them pictorially for a long time. The forearm of a Hawken rifle is never slab-sided. Nor is any other muzzle loading rifle that has proper architecture. Even though they are deeper vertically than rifles we're more used to seeing, because of the 7/16" to 1/2" rod and the ~ 1/4" web between barrel and rod hole, a result of an under-rib of that dimension, the bottom of the forearm is rounded nicely and never flat. The sides are a gentle convex curve up past the escutcheons and then a quicker convex curve to the barrel channel. Also adding to this is the fact that the bolster on the lock plate is sometimes as thin as ~ 1/4". Once the lock panel forward of the lock is defined, that further influences the shape of the forearm. But they are definitely not slab-sided or flat. I don't know what you mean by "beavertailed".

Ben I. Voss · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2012, 06:25:08 PM »

Right you are,Taylor. I have had the good luck to actually handle two or three original Hawken rifles and the surprising thing about them is their sleekness. Although the barrels are invariably heavy, the stocks seem very slim and rounded - something that many people miss when building a copy today.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2012, 07:12:10 PM »

Have to say that the forestock looks pretty flat from the photos shown. May be just lighting, but it's pretty hard to avoid with the dimensions that have been given and the height it appears to be. A pretty substantial width will help to some degree.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2012, 07:45:19 PM »

In spite of the horrendous depth vertically of the forend, it is entirely possible to create the lovely curve that avoids the slab-sided effect. Here's a pic of my .62 cal Hawken stock just after finishing with beeswax (successful experiment!). this rifle has a tapered 1 1/8" bbl, a +1/4" web, a 1/2" rod hole, and 1/8" of wood along the bottom of the forearm.

bgf · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2012, 11:12:39 PM »

Taylor,
Thanks. By beavertailed I mean the cross-section of the forearm is shaped something like a beaver's tail. I thought it was a common shape to forearms on some later firearms, so I was wondering if it had appeared on this Hawken. I agree that all of the other Hawken rifles I've seen (in pictures only) seem to have a fully-rounded forearm as you describe, but the one pictured looks different to me and I was trying to figure out what the cause was. Whatever it is, I think it was probably intentional in this case, as it doesn't look a mistake.

PPatch · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2012, 11:58:19 PM »

I believe the confusion (slab sides) is caused by the lighting on the pistol grip Hawken, and the photographs small relative size. The light running fore and aft near the bottom of the forearm is being interpreted as an actual line on the stock when in fact that is the point where the most light was reflected to the camera lens. You can see a similar light effect on Taylors photo of his Hawken but since his is a closeup the curving shape is much more obvious.

Dave

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #16 on:** November 15, 2012, 12:07:01 AM »

Also, It is difficult to get the concept of roundness from a perfectly profile photo. Mine is from several angles and therefore demonstrates a better 3D effect.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #17 on:** November 15, 2012, 05:18:35 AM »

I must be real lucky as I've been able to handle and hold and fondel 20+ original Hawken guns from the so called local trade type of light gun to several Mt. rifles. J&S Hawkens and S. Hawkens. Many state historical museums, gun shows, other peoples colections and other museums. Mr. Voss is corect inthat they might be of large dimentions on the average none seemed to me to be clumsey or clunky but allways streamlined and flowing. Smylee

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #18 on:** November 15, 2012, 05:40:43 AM »

Guess it's sacrilege to question the mighty Hawken.

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Author Topic: Pistol Grip Hawken (Read 8084 times)

SPG