Priming Powder

[Dphariss]

What does the "g" stand for..."graphite" or "granulation".

If "graphite", then all Goex powders are coated with graphite...

Fg
FFg
FFFg
FFFFg
FFFFFg

They are.
Rub a few grains on your hand it will rub off black. Its an old test for "black lead" . An additive that was not acceptable to most militarys back in the day.
Dan

PS Unless things have changed a lot its all graphited. Some like early "cartridge" was DOUBLE coated with graphite.  According to an excellent source.

[roundball]

The Goex MSDS says differently...

[Larry Pletcher]

Meanwhile Ogre is sitting back, chuckling and perhaps laughing out louod over all we've forgotten, changed around or twisted from his most excellent explanations in the past on powders and their compostion.

Daryl,
You're probably right about Bill.  I have 2 binders full of his work, but loaned it and and need to get it back.

You posed a opinion in an earlier post: . . .

I suggest in order to 'test' what we hear or feel, would be to time the actual ignition inside the barrel as we know there is more heat generated with 4F ignition than with 3, 2 or 1.

I'm not sure about this.  If I were to go with my gut, I'd say that the amount of heat generated in the pan is determined by the amount of priming powder present; but that the finely granulated powders build the heat faster.  I'd suggest that equal amounts of priming powder may generate the same amount of heat, but Swiss Null b (for instance) peaks much sooner than say Goex fffg or ffg. This quicker peak may account for the quicker ignition.

This is all gut and not a tested conclusion.  I'm not sure how one would separate the total heat generated from the quicker peak in heat -- certainly not with my equipment.  (I would love to have the Myth-Busters budget.)

Regards,
Pletch

PS: after posting this: If different grain sizes product unequal amounts of heat, it may be possibile to increase the amount of ffg in the pan to generate the same amount of heat produced by Null B and still not duplicate the quick heat peak that Null B produced.  I don't know - just more questions. (edited)

[Candle Snuffer]

The Goex  MSDS says traces of graphite.  It also says "Not contained in all grades of black powder."

http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/MSDS-A-Blasting.pdf

[Daryl]

Pletch - it makes sense that the faster the rise of heat, the faster the ignition of the main charge takes place, hense the quicker the ignition.

Whether it's coated or not, really doesn't effect me - perhaps those that are coated, are coated after being screened - that makes sense. I suspect I want non-coated priming powder for faster ignition - considering that graphite is not a water proofer. I suspect the reason that 3f gathers' moisture slower, if it does, is due to having less surface area than the 4f granuals have. This also has no effect for me as the flinters go trail walking, and the cappers go hunting.

[frogwalking]

Wow!  What a bunch of information.  My eyes are not what they once were, and neither are my nerves, that is, I weave around a little more than I used to.  I have taken to carrying the Chambers 20 gauge for the reasons listed above, and because I like the feel and weight of it better than any ml I have ever owned.  Its big Virginia lock seems to be as reliable as old faithful.  Pull the trigger, and a bang or boom is shortly to follow..  The rifle I made my son has a Chamber's late Ketland lock.  It is so much faster than the Virginia lock that the powder granulation may indeed make a real world difference in the Ketland.  I am assuming the large lock is for dead-nuts reliability, and the small movement of the fowler when the lock parts all do their thing is acceptable, whereas the smaller rifle lock jerks the rifle arould much less, and ignites more quickly.  Now this is simple observation and nothing scientific.  I am in the shooter category now, and not particularly a rifleman, so that is ok.  Thanks so much for all the information.  I will likely forget most of it, but I think all that stuff hangs around somewhere in my head any.

[Stormrider51]

This may be a subject for which there is no definitive answer short of a multi-thousand dollar study.  One of many variables involved is human perception.  When I'm at the bench on sandbags and locked into the sight picture while feeling and seeing the beating of my heart, the shot can seem to take forever from the instant I begin squeezing the trigger.  On the other hand, I often don't remember very much at all about a shot fired at a deer.  I know I had a good sight picture but things went really fast.  The difference I think is where my attention is focused.  In the first case I'm focused on the gun, in the second I'm focused on the deer.  

Another variable is the gun itself and its condition at the moment the trigger is tripped.  How sharp is the flint?  How hard the frizzen and are there traces of oil on it to reduce friction?  Try dry firing repeatedly and observe the number of sparks falling into the pan.  It varies, doesn't it?  Now lets consider the color, ie: temperature, of those sparks.  Were they white hot and danced around the pan?  Or were they yellow and went dark quickly?  How many actually fell into the pan vs missed it entirely?  In other words, how much fire was there available to start the fire?  

While it can easily be argued that smaller granules burn more quickly it can also be argued that larger granules offer a greater surface area and burn longer and therefore create more heat.  And how much powder in the pan is best in the first place?  Will granules of FFFG fall into the vent and create the dreaded "fuse effect"?  How large is the vent hole?  And how much of it was obstructed by fouling?

In the end we get back to the shooter or the human factor if you will.  I like the classifications of "gun owner", "shooter", and "riflemen".  I'll skip any description of the first two because the categories are broad.  A rifleman however is a person who generally will not be satisfied until he or she has wrung the last bit of accuracy from a firearm.  That's my description.  Or maybe you define them differently.  If you think about it, that's how we got here in the first place.  Different strokes...

Storm

[Larry Pletcher]

Stormrider51,
You have done a great job showing the problems involved in controlling the multiple variables in studying flintlocks. Timing a lock is tough enough, but add the priming powder varieties, vents, barrels, and flints and you can see the issues in getting valid numbers. You question your methods,run your ideas past your friends, and hope you’re not missing anything. It's a pain, but worth it when it all comes together.
Regards,
Pletch

[Stormrider51]

Pletch...that's what makes this shooting game so interesting.  I've been doing it for 50 or so years and still don't have all the answers.  Along the way I learned that I never will because every gun is a universe unto itself.  I've had rifles that astounded me with their accuracy and those that defeated my best efforts to make them perform.  Even costly and highly scientific testing of one rifle will not predict the performance of all rifles in its class.

Storm