Apprentice

[Born233yrs2late]

Okay, let me preface this by saying I know this is a very very long shot, but I am looking to see if anyone would be willing to take on an apprentice. I have been interested in flintlocks since I was five when I saw some reenactors using flintlocks at an event. When I was eleven I got my first rifle (as has been the tradition in our family for the past 200 years or so) and when I used that Traditions .50 cal. flintlock to take my first deer I was hooked. I am 18 years old now and for the first time this summer I attended the CLA show in Kentucky. I have been doing a lot of research on flintlocks but I have always wanted to become more hands on in history, and I would love to learn this art. I originally wanted to go into college right after my senior year (this year)  but my mother convinced me to look into doing something like this or maybe missionary work for a gap year before going into college since I probably will not have another chance to do something like this until after I retire. If anyone would like to give me any advice feel more than welcome to, and if anyone would like to further discuss my proposition in private, my email address is flintlock@archaeologist.com (yes, this is my real email address). Thank you very much.

-Jameson

Post Scriptum- I sure hope this was the right discussion folder to post under, if I need to move it, just tell me so and I will gladly do so.

[Born233yrs2late]

Oh, I thought I might add, just so it is clear, I know that gun makers do not make much if any profit from their work, so I am in no way looking for a paying job, I also realize that it is almost impossible to make a living off of doing this, which is why I am intending on going to college after this "break" or adventure. I am really just looking to learn something here, and help someone out at the same time. I originally was most interested in the York school of flintlocks, but after talking with Mr. Thomas at Martins Station, I have started to really like the rifles from Western Virginia (not to say I only like those rifles, I would love to learn work on anything really, those are just very specific interests).
Just thought I should throw that out there.
-Jameson

[Dave B]

Jameson Welcome to the Forum. Taking a year off and doing something to settle you down is always a good Idea. Its a slippery slope you walk my friend starting in with rifle building and you may find your self biting off a large hunk that can take the rest of your life to chew through. I think that your starting about this in almost the right way. I don't think you will find many of the full time makers will have the ability to take on a free set of hands due to the row boat effect. If only one person knows how to row then others in the boat just slow you down. I know that their are plenty of fellows out there that are happy to have you look over there shoulder from time to time and ask questions but to get a true hands on apprenticeship requires training then fulfilling a time period of productivity that made the training worth while. You may be better off taking a couple of the classes being taught around the country on rifle building and developing your skills then you could have a better chance of getting an apprenticeship due to the ability to be productive enough to be worth the investment of time you will cost the Master.

 Your going to the CLA show and talking with those who are very active in building is a great starting point. The few times that I was able to attend their meetings I came a way with all sorts of great information about building. I wonder if it may be possible to spread out your time over several  different builders in several different areas geographically. Joe Wood one of our members here Is in Texas and may know of others that build down your way. I think if I were you I would be looking up in the PA, VA Areas. Talk to as many builders as you can. When ever my job takes me to the east side of our country I try to meet a few builders in the are I am based out of for the time the continuing Ed meetings last. I have met some of the nicest people this way. I wish you luck in your quest.

[Osprey]

I commend you for being smart enough to take the year to do something like this, you'll never regret it.  Life does tend to get in the way after college.  I know a few guys who took a year before college and went out west to be fishing/hunting guides for a year, they always look back on it as the best time of their lives. 

Still learning myself, but I would sugget maybe finding gunsmiths whose work you like and contacting them directly.  Might not get a full apprenticeship, but a few weeks or a month in several different builders shops would definitely show you a lot.  Everybody does things differently, too, always good to know several ways to do things.   Make sure to schedule Dixon's on your calender in July, too!

If you ever get to the mid Eastern Shore area of Maryland you're welcome to visit with our group.  No full time builders, but ten of us that share a lot of years of experience when together.

[Eric Krewson]

Might give Tip Curtis a call. Years ago one of my friends spent weeks at a time in his shop working for free to learn the craft. Tip has helpers in his gun building shop and might like to have one more, especially if you work for free.

[Born233yrs2late]

Thank you for all of the responses, I have taken the suggestions and seriously looked at some of the options, I will respond individually to you guys soon, but first I have to take care of a few tests and projects this week. I was surprised to have gotten a lot of responses from folks in the western part of the United States, I thought there would have been more people from the eastern part of the country who would respond. Thank you once again and I will be responding as soon as I can.
-Jameson


Post Scriptum- I am still willing to hear from more people as well, if there are those willing to respond still, I would like to have as many options as possible. Thanks again.

[Tommy Bruce]

Congratulations on your decision.  I wish I could go back to 18 and have this kind of opportunity.  I would try contacting Colonial Williamsburg and see if they still have an apprenticeship program.  Secondly, join the National Muzzleloading rifle association.  They offer a number of building classes that may help.  Jim Kibler and Ian Pratt have also put on some classes at the Log Cabin shop in Lodi Ohio.  Best of luck to you and keep us updated!!

[Mike Brooks]

I can't take on an apprentice, but I congratulate you on your goals at your age. $#*!, all I did was drink beer and hunt and fish till I was about 26 or so. Of course I don't regret it either....

[cmac]

Just a thought........ If you are unable to find a full apprenticeship you may want to look into all of the classes available. There are a good number of them as well as smaller seminars. I have wanted to do the same but work and kids keeps me pretty well tied down. Best of luck

[David Veith]

I might that I am not the greatest builder but don't be afraid to be mentor under some one either. working on your project. Something on a Saturday night build idea. where you go to there shop for a couple of hour shoot the bull and learn at the same time. Of course it help if you bring a 6 pack. :-) For me it help get me motivated in working on my own piece as I help them on theres.  so where is home that would help on the board.
David

[Odd Fellow]

Im 17 and also have looked into the same thing but after being accepted into Berea College I decided to build up my own shop and do varrious woodworking projects on the side. I make $10 an hour doing this! but I dont have any projects as of this moment.

I would suggest you tell us your general location so that we may be better prepared to help you in your quest.

As for seminars At the Lexington Woodcraft store Mike Miller gave a class on longrifle carving. Western Kentucky University has seminars every year.

This year was my first year at the CLA show. I went saturday and carried my snaphaunce and had a couple of offers, I wanted to shoot it more than take a wad of cash.


But you can make money off of this stuff if you try hard but it is more a labor of love. I wish you luck in your travels and hope you find a capable gunsmith with the ability to take you on as an apprentice!

[Born233yrs2late]

Thanks for the advice, I live between San Antonio and Austin Texas, but I am applying to Austin College (up near dallas), Washington and Lee, Hillsdale, William and Mary, Patrick Henry, and George Washington University. I hope that helps if you guys know any makers or things I can do near these colleges or in central Texas. I know that there is plenty of stuff near William and Mary and Washington and Lee, but I am not sure about the rest.

[Stormrider51]

I'm in Austin but I "retired" from gunsmithing (for the public) about a year ago and I never limited myself to doing builds on muzzleloaders.  If I had, I'd have starved to death.  Building traditional muzzleloaders for a living is a very tough game that can be likened to being a successful sculptor or other artist.  It takes a long time to get recognition and some never do while still alive.  Can you take time to attend the gunsmith school at the Colorado School of Trades?  They will take you from knowing nothing to being able to tackle most gunsmith jobs with confidence.  It's not strickly about muzzleloading arms but all the basic principles apply. 

If you can't do that let's take two scenarios.  Both are based on a beginner who wants to learn.  A working gunsmith can take you on and put you to doing the most basic and menial jobs on hand.  If you are very lucky you will be paid for your work.  If he asks you to pay him fall back to CSOT or another equally respected school.  (Avoid ANY online school!  Why pay for anything but the best in an education?)  As you progress he may give you more complicated tasks to do.  BUT REGARDLESS, HE IS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR WORK.  GOOD OR BAD, it's his name on it.  If it is really bad he will either have to re-do the job or pay the customer for the messed up gun.  This will put a gunsmith out of business in a hurry.  Remember this, he is taking a huge risk on you.

In the second scenario you purchase a kit consisting of parts from respected makers and start in slowly.  It doesn't matter if you take a year to complete the project.  It's better to go slowly and ask questions on a forum such as this and come up with a gun you aren't ashamed of than to rush it and guarantee you will never see the cost of the parts in the sale price.  You may still not but at least you have a chance.  I'll be happy to walk you through the basics as you go along and I won't charge you.  Remember, you are learning to be a sculptor and I can't force that ability on you.  I have dozens of guns behind me but I can't give you my eyes or sense of proportion.  Frankly, that comes from "uh-oh's" and it's always far easier to remove wood or metal than to put it back. 

At the risk of starting another arguement on here, it's also possible to buy a modern factory made muzzleloader and modify the existing stock or make a new one while learning as you go along.

Storm

[Osprey]

GWU in D.C.?  You'd be about 1.5-2 hours from us, a ride but doable for the Wednesday nights we meet.  You wouldn't be far from Larry Gardner, I've heard he welcomes guests to his shop if you call ahead and want to observe.  I think there's a few others near there, but I try to avoid that side of the Bay whenever possible. There is no life west of the Chespeake, after all.