25 loads?

[northmn]

I have the wherewithall at this time to get a Rayl 25 barrel and build a nice light rifle.  A few have them and I would like some feed back on ball size.  #3 or #4 buck?  Powder charge?  and some experiences with them.

DP

[Levy]

I just got back from my annual hunting/camping trip on the Ochlocknee River here in Florida and we had a great time.  I promised myself that I would use the nice .25 cal. (Ed Rayl barrel) rifle that Billy Harkins made for me.  I'm not a great shot, but it is great on squirrels and I got 8 of them.  I was shooting from a bullet board with .018 patches (striped like pillow ticking) prelubed with Wonder Lube/Ox-Yoke or something comparable.  I was using #4 buckshot (.24) and it loaded easily shot after shot if I cleaned the petroleum oil out of the bore and wiped it with the WonderLube before loading the first time.  I have a 5 lb. box of #3 (.25 cal.) and would like to try it, but haven't yet.  Build the gun, you'll love it.

James Levy

[Daryl]

You guys are stirring up some interest in reallllllly small bores amonst us bush-apes in Northern BC, don't cha ya know.

[Gene Carrell]

I got the itch for a 25cal after spending the  afternoon shooting a friends rifle several months ago. I now have one started using one of Rayl's 3/4"x42" 25cal. in the style of a southern mountain rifle. I think it will be just the thing  for squirrels. Have a jar full of #4 buck to get started.

[Levy]

Daryl: There has to be something small enough for you to hunt in BC with a .25 caliber rifle?  What about some kind of grouse or rabbits.  I understand that moose are shot up there with a .25 rimfire.

James Levy

[Roger Fisher]

Daryl: There has to be something small enough for you to hunt in BC with a .25 caliber rifle?  What about some kind of grouse or rabbits.  I understand that moose are shot up there with a .25 rimfire.

James Levy

I do know that the favorite for moose in Quebec by the Crees is the ol 30/30 (pardon me for straying)  -  I do wonder if those Crees know anything about the ML??
They wait for the moose swimming the lake/narrows then nail em from a outboard powered canoe and quarter them with an axe hide on.  Kinda like they did it a couple or three times before.  Been there!!

[Daryl]

We can hunt grouse and rabbits - maybe skunks too in a few years as they are now infiltrating the area.  With the warmer weather, all sorts of species that didn't used to be here, are showing up - COOL! - or WARM as the case may be.

 I can see a .25 cal. 'southern' rifle in my future.  I just don't know how I'm going to handle those little balls with my fat fingers.

[Levy]

Daryl:  I have the same problem with the small size of the #4 buckshot, but a bullet board, which can be loaded at home solves that problem.  I now have 3 curly maple bullet boards with 21 shots in each one (lots of squirrels down here).

James Levy

[Daryl]

They'd not have to be very large, either. Good thinking, James.

[ironsights1]

Daryl...I've only had my .25 Tennessee flintlock for a couple of months (built by Ed Rayl of Sitting Fox using an Ed Rayl 38" swamped barrel), but so far it seems to like 25 grains of Goex 3F or 20 grains of Swiss 3F, a .017 patch, Lehigh Valley Lube, and #4 Hornady buck.  I found a .235 Lee mold, but the #4 buck was quicker.  I already cast .285 roundballs for my .29 flintlock and .30 percussion, so I was used to handling those tiny round balls...plus it's warmer here in Southern  Illinois! (I lived in Nome, Ak, for a year, so I know what cold weather feels like and how difficult thing become, at least to -40 F). I've never had any fouling problems with the small calibers during squirrel season, there's no recoil with these calibers, but you still need to take head shots to not damage meat. With the .25, you can shoot all day with a pound of lead and powder and still go home with most of it.  Tom

[northmn]

20 grains is almost weight for weight isn't it.  A # 4 buckshot must weigh close to that?  I would think that that would make them scoot.

DP

[Levy]

DP:  20 grs. of Goex will push the #4 buckshot in excess of 1600 fps.  I haven't measured it, but a friend used 20 grs. in a .28 cal. rifle (#2 buckshot, .27 cal.) and it pushed it over 1600 fps (Swiss was faster).  That's zipping along pretty good for a small sphere (I don't know what they weigh).  Ironsights is correct in saying that you need to try for headshots if you don't want to destroy a lot of good meat.  Ironsights rifle would be easier to handle in the woods with the 38" barrel.  Mine is a southern style too, but with a 48" swamped barrel.  It's tough to maneuver in the thick woods.  It feels good on target and looks great on the wall.

James Levy

[Daryl]

1,600fps isn't fast for a small bore - they usually shoot much faster than the bigger bores.   Shooting 20gr. seems a mite small for a .25 to me - I'd probably start at 25gr., 1gr. per calibre and expect about 1,600fps to 1,700fps- a starting load for finding an accuracy load & go from there.

[Candle Snuffer]

I kind of have the itch to try a .25...  I also wondered about the 1600 fps but then thought about that patch in that small bore, would it handle much more?  Would the teflon patches be needed?  Will my wife find out I'm even thinking about another rifle???   

[billd]

What kind of twist are you guys shootong or does Ed Rayl only offer one?  Who else makes a .25?

Bill

[Ezra]

What kind of twist are you guys shootong or does Ed Rayl only offer one?  Who else makes a .25?

Bill

Bobby Hoyt makes .25 caliber barrels.


Ez

[northmn]

I just weighed a #4 buck pellet from some I remmebered I had laying around.  It weighed about 25 grains (probably a chilled pellet).  3f in this small a bore is probably like using 1f in a 45 or 50 which explains the lower velocity.  4f may or may not improve it. Essentially the rifle is a supercharged 22 short. That ain't all bad as the 22 short is really adequate for about anything I use a 22 for.  In the depression the 22 short was used a lot as it was about 2 cents a box cheaper. The little 25 would be safer as the smaller ball would not travel as far, quieter and sounds like fun.  For its use 1600 fps is plenty.  Shooting a squirrel in the head is a shortrange proposition anyway.   Here we go again with folks wanting more steam out of a small bore.  If you want more power go really big and get a 32. 

DP

[northmn]

Another thought just struck me on the lower velocities.  Would the touchhole size in a 25 make a difference?  Most are about 1/16" which is small for a 45 or 50 but may be getting big for a smallbore.  I know some use a .070 in a 40 but we are still talking about small powder charges and a small bore.  I remember a person that had a cheap, very cheap 45 filnter with at least a 3/32" touch hole.  When he shot it with about 25 grains the whole charge vented out the touchhole.

DP

[Daryl]

Any ML rifles are head-shot rifles - too much speed for body shots. A 40gr. ball puts it equal to the .22's bullet. The speed puts it ahead of the rimfires close in.

[northmn]

Actually I was surprised at my 40.  I popped a squirrel with it and hit a little off and smashed both shoulders.  I was using a lower speed load of about 30 grains (a 45 ACP) case.  Considering that I hit shoulder blades and bones it did less damage than the fast little 32's.  For those asking, I looked up the Rayl barrel and they are 1-48 twist.  I have always felt that the small bores could use a little faster twist.  Mathematically the angle of rifling in a 1-48 twist in a 25 would be the same as a 1-96 in a 50.  About a 1-35 or 1-30 might make them a little more reasonable for their intended purpose.  The rate of twist is affected by bore diameter as well as turns per length.  Don Getz would likely be able to enlighten me further, but that is a thought.  20 grains puching a 25 grain ball is a stiff load.

DP

[Daryl]

It's an easy matter, mathematically, to figure the ratio of twist to bore size.  This is why small calibres usually have faster twists than the larger ones.  Put another way, the larger the bore, the slower the twist that can be used and still give equal accuracy.  I agree with you, the very small bores would use vastly increased twists which would also allow smaller powder charges and lower velocities. A person can always load light, but rarely will accuracy accompany vastly reduced charges, except at very close range.

[Levy]

I believe that Ed Rayl's .25 cal. barrels have a 1x48 twist and that they are closer to .255.  He (Ed said that was to allow a  1/4" rod to be used(metal or wood).  Ed told me that most people were having success with 25-30 grs. of 3fff .  I thought I'd have all kinds of problems with a bore that small, but it just hasn't proved true.

James Levy