barrel pins and forstock moldings

[smylee grouch]

Other than drawing a line from front pin to back and placing any middle pins on the line are there any other little tips to keep the barrel pins or keys right on or in the groove?    Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays      Smylee

[curly]

Nothing the matter with that method. Thats the way to do them as far as I'm concerned.

Curly

[Don Getz]

If you're building a gun with a swamped barrel, those pins will not fall in a straight line.   That is something I never even
gave a thought to.   I was always concerned about each individual pin, and where I had to place it in order to hit the
underlug.   I have never had someone pick up one of my guns and say,  "nice gun, but those pins are out of alignment"
Maybe I should buy one of the gunbuilding books, Dixon's. etc., maybe I've been doing it all wrong for the past 40 years.
Don

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Yeah ... sure you have...............   ........... Who said that?

[JTR]

Well Don, if I ever see one of your guns, the first thing I'm gonna say is, Nice gun, but the pins are out of alignment!

John

[Jim Kibler]

With typical web thicknesses, there is ususally enough room to align pins ,if you so desire, with a swamped barrel.  This may seem insignificant, but with forestock moldings such as a cove and bead, it looks pretty crummy to have a pin fall right on the bead.  With very thin webs, there may not be enough room for alignment.  If you start with a good plane at the top of the stock, just measure down from that the appropriate distance.

[Jim Kibler]

I should have added that if attempting to align pins, any behind the entry pipe don't need to be included in this attempt.  Just put it wherever is easiest.

Jim

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Smylee, you might be looking for a problem that isn't there.  I place my pin or key holes as close to the barrel's bottom flat as possible, as I like a very thin web between the barrel and the rod channel/hole.  When I lay out the incised line along the upper forend, I just place a long straight edge against the pins protruding from their holes, and scribe beneath them.  This places the pins above the molding line.  Intuition says that they won't line up because the barrel is swamped, but perhaps the taper of the wood and its flair at the muzzle takes care of the issue, because I don't end up with pins out of alignment, or interfering with a bead.

[Jim Kibler]

I agree that in most cases alignment of pins won't make much difference, but there are a few details or special cases to consider. 

-  It's nice if pins end up in a groove along the molding.  This helps prevent punch slippage when removing pins.  If you want this and your forestock molding is straight, your pins will have to be as well.
-  If scraping a forestock molding, it's easier to get good results to do so before pin holes are drilled.  It's a lot easier to start pin holes in a molding groove than on the forestock radius.  If you want this and your forestock molding is a straight line, your pins will have to be as well.
- Sometimes with a beaded molding it can compress it to fit it below the pin holes and will look better if it extends higher on the forestock.  The pin holes can be put in the groove below the bead.  Again, if the molding is a straight line and you want this to happen your pins will need to be in a line as well. 

The point of this is that there is typically lattitude for placement of pins in underlugs even with a swamped barrel and relatively thin webs.  Sometimes not locating the pin in the same location relative to the bottom of the barrel can be beneficial.

[rich pierce]

+1 it can be wicked to use a scratch stock to make a molding if the pin holes are drilled and the pin holes are in the groove.  They catch the tool every time.

[smylee grouch]

Thanks you guys, I think Taylor is right , might not really be that much of a problem but Jim made a good point in that a pin in the molding looks bad and Rich is right too because using a stock scrape across one of the pin holes might give you headaches. On a three pin rifle I think I can lay out a line from the front pin to the center pin, drill just above the line and should be ok as the rear pin wont be affected by the forarm molding and will be so close to the same level that you wont be able to tell. Thanks again every one and Happy Holidays.   Smylee

[flehto]

W/ thin webs {3/32" @ breech & 5/32" @ muzzle} and even using .062 dia. music wirw,  theres''s very little room. I just install the pins and later when cutting the molding lines, use the incise cutter that rides in the RR groove to see what pinholes interfere w/ the upper molding surface. I usually avoid most of the holes but some do land  at the upper edge of the molding, especially w/ a wider molding. Haven't had any problems w/ a .062 dia. pin either interfering w/ cutting the top edge of the molding into a bead or from an esthetic  viewpoint.....Fred

[Jim Kibler]

One final comment...  If the ramrod groove is straight and the lugs extend to the groove, the pins can be aligned no matter the web thickness.  Right?  Think about it. 

Now, I quit since I've already put too much thought towards something that really isn't too significant in the big picture.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

 

[Mike Brooks]

It never occurred to me that pin alignment is something to worry about.

[Acer Saccharum]

I worry very little about pin location. But, then again, it shows. 

I put my pins in, and then cut my grooves. I try to pick up as many of the pins as I can, but it doesn't always work out. Maybe because I hadn't put much thought to it in the first place. 

Tom