French flintlock

[Tony Clark]

  I fail half the time but you seem to succeed most of the time.  I
dave 

Huh? I've yet to see Jim fail at anything... and I've been looking for something to nitpick, found nothing yet   

I'd say about 8 hours for that raised border work on the plate.

[Daryl]

I recall that not too long ago, L&R's use of these very shapes of raised pan and pan fitting extensions on the bottom of the frizzen were criticized as being nothing more than an attempt to hide poor fitting. In checking my own L&R locks with this same type of waterproofing, all three of them, I find no such poor fitting, but the same shapes and interlocking mechanism as on these fine locks.  Interesting, indeed. I do wish they were gold lined, though, but for $100.00, such is not to be had.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Daryl, L & R's frizzens have a piece of steel integral with the pan cover that fits INSIDE THE PAN.  They do not have a raised rim like the one you showed, which is very nice, I must say.  I believe the idea of the protrusion on their frizzens is designed to block light from showing through, demonstrating the fit of the frizzen to the pan.  But in my experience, there is nothing wrong with their fitting.  They are as tight or tighter than other locks I've used.

[Majorjoel]

We often find great beauty and design style in the French, German, and English locks. All of these examples are in the top of the form with inovations and artistic merit.  I look at Jims French pistol lock and the first word that comes to mind is "graceful". I have an example of a pistol made in Northern Italy that dates back to the last decade of the 17th century. I call it a piece of male jewelery.        

[Majorjoel]

 

[Jim Kibler]

Feltwad,

Thanks for the photos of the locks on the double gun.  Any idea of the date this might have been made?

Majorjoel,

That's a neat gun.  I would have guessed this gun to be early 18th century with the flat faced lock in particular, but may be entirely off base.  Just curious what makes you believe this is 17th century?  Thanks for posting the photos.  I've really enjoyed all that has been shared in this thread.

Jim

[Feltwad]

Jim

Date for this sxs flintlock is approx 1760-80.
Feltwad

[Captchee]

 here are a couple more







 Here is a shot of  another  with a different pan architecture

[Tony Clark]

Captchee this firearm is worthy of a correct R. hand frizzen spring replacement.

[Captchee]

Captchee this firearm is worthy of a correct R. hand frizzen spring replacement.

 seen that did ya LOL
actualy i think both sides need replaced . neather look original  on the first SXS
 did you notice the shape of the pan with the matching notch in the frizzen ?

[Captchee]

 here is another that i came across just a few days ago . it apears that alot of the parts have been replaced .
Its for sale but i think someone told the owner that its worht thousands vs a coupe hundred Max .
 but if anyone is interested , send me a PM and ill put you in touch with the owner .
 






 here is a link to all the photos he  took
http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/gallery/old_flintlock

[Tom Cooper]

Here is one, could not locate a date or much else on it and was not brave enough to take it apart.

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks guys for all the neat examples.  One thing intersting is that it seems that on the majority of the later 18th French pieces shown, the pan is of a detachable style.  The  17th century method seemed to continue to predominate throughout the 18th century in France.  (See previous posts in this thread concerning pan attachment methods)

One thing that I'm not sure I made very clear with the original post is the importance of the 17th century French flintlock.  The flintlock seems to have emerged in France during the 1620's or 1630's. As time passed it rapidly developed as did the French firearm in general.  French technology and deorative styles spread widely throughout Europe and England as the 17th century progressed and had an overwhelming impact on 18th century firearms as well.  This is the most important point I think that can be gained.  

Specific to the original posting, one thing to remember is how advanced the French flintlock became at such a relatively early date.

One interesting aspect, not specifically mentioned previously, is how the round faced Classical Louis XIV flintlock design is descendent of the mid to late 18th century British round faced lock.  It is interesting to trace the development of the English lock from basically a late 17th century French design to the later 18th century round faced design most recognize today.  I will try to put together a series of photos showing this evolution at some point.

Thanks for the interest!

Jim

[Vomitus]

  drool

[Majorjoel]

Those French gunsmiths made some pretty stunning SxS flintlock fowlers!  Jim, I just now saw your question regarding the age of the Italian pistol. The lock on that piece is signed along the front plate bevel edge: Geo Asse. Geovanni Asse is listed in Stockel's book as working 1690-1710. He is also listed in the book "Brescian Firearms" by Nolfo di Carpegna, which places flintlock arms with his signature in various museums in Europe. It also mentions the possibility of his linage being born in 1634, son of Joseppe Azzi who was a swordsmith. My pistol could date to about 1710 or so. I have a habit of placing things to the earliest side.        

[eddillon]

Majorjoel,
 Could you post a close up of the right side lock?  I would like to compare features with my "boys fowler" lock.  Seems that there are similarities in the lockplate. Also, what date do you place on your SxS?
Thanks,
Major Ed retired USAF  

[Bob Roller]

THAT is an elegant lock, Can you post dimensions please?
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Major Ed.
Major Joel.
Thanks to both of you for your service to our country.We have a son,Msgt Robert M.Roller who is a 17 year police officer USAF Air Combat Command. I put in 9 years in the Army from 1954 to 1963 and got out soon after JFK sold out the Bay of Pigs invaders and finished in the National Guard.

Bob Roller

[eddillon]

Thank you for your service, Bob and Joel.  My lock is 5.125" x..855".  height measured just behind the fence.
Ed

[Majorjoel]

                        

[Tony Clark]

                     

That butt plate would be great fun to install.