Southern/Mountain rifles experts, help please.

[billd]

I have one of Dennis's Gillespie rifles almost finished. This is my first project other than brass mounted PA rifles.   I'm planning my next project and ran into a roadblock.    I have a 44" B weight Rice barrel and a great piece of Ash.  The problem is the blank is a little shy of one inch too short, or the barrel is too long. The problem is the extended toe design. With a flatter butt plate it would fit.

Can anybody help me out with suggestions or pictures of a rifle that has a flatter butt plate that ash would be an appropriate wood. I'm looking for a plain mountain style gun.

Other options I thought of was not using a butt plate, which scares the stuff out of me, shortening the barrel, which I don't want to do or shortening the pull length. I ruled this last one out because I'm too tall to go a full inch shorter.

Another one I thought of is adding a piece to the end of the blank and hiding it under a nose cap. I don't know if this would even work.

I seems to me the best way to go is a different style rifle with a flat butt but that is where I need help. I have no ideas what direction to take or what to look for with an ash stock and still be at least partially PC correct.

Any help, suggestions or pictures will be greatly appreciated.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Thanks,
Bill

[G-Man]

Bill - I am no expert but not sure if I understand - are you saying that you were planning another mountain rifle with the long extended toe, like the Gillespie buttplate, but just want to use a flatter buttplate style now due to the pull length?

If so but you want to stay with an Appalachian style rifle there are lots of other examples  that don't have the pronouced toe - many SW Virginia and early Tennesse guns have a more prominent heel  and less curve to the buttplate, and are a bit taller and wider.  Take a look at the Joseph Bogle rifle on the "American Historic Services" website.

Also - take a look at Dennis' website - his Matthew Gillespie (and the early Matthew Gillespie shown in his book) do not have buttplates, and do not have nearly the pronounced curve or long toe.

Good luck!

Guy

[t.caster]

Don't sacrifice the butt architecture....make a longer nose cap, or just move the nose cap out on the end of the wood as needed & use a filler inside.
Been there, done that.

[billd]

Guy,   Yes, I was planning another mountain rifle with an ash stock.  Ideally, I would like a Gillespie with just a little more drop. It's my fault I ended up with a short blank.  I also may be confusing the heel and toe of the stock. I'm talking about the bottom of the butt plate. What is the correct name for that?

Tom ,   Thanks for the encouragement. I guess I'm not the first person who did this.  I'm just an inch short but to me it looked like a mile when I laid it out. Your stomach starts sinking............. To extend the nose I guess I would inlay a piece of heavy piano wire or keystock in the bottom of the barrel channel extending into the added wood piece and acraglass it together? Then cover it up with a nose cap?

Thanks again,
Bill

[Dennis Glazener]

Bill,
I wouldn't worry about the nose cap. Both of the Harvey Gillespie rifles in my book have longer nose caps. One is 1.38 and the other is 1.40.

I have drilled holes straight into the end of the forearm, screwed small wood screws in then end of the holes, then poured a pewter nose cap there. Its still holding well.

You could drill holes for some dowel pins to hold a 1" piece of wood. Use some good glue then work the nose cap down like normal using a cap long enough to hide the joint.

Of course there is nothing saying what type curve you need on the butt, just find one to suite you needs. That's the good thing about mountain rifles pretty much anything works (within reason )

Dennis


Dennis

[David Rase]

Bill,  I have attached a few pictures of my Frank House .29 caliber mountain rifle.  As you can see, it is not stocked in ash but the iron butt plate is flat. 




I have a .25 caliber Ed Rayl barerl inlet into a piece of curley ash with an identical iron butt plate installed.  Unfortunately, that is as far as I have got on the project.
DMR

[Ken G]

Tom is dead on.  Don't sacrifice the butt architecture on a Southern rifle to keep from adding 1 inch to the nose.  It's too easy to add to the nose and cover it up.  No one will ever know. 
I'd do as Dennis suggested with wooden dowels rather than wire.  That way you can shape everything together.  Once finished, cover with a nosecap and acraglass everything together under the nose cap.  If you are still worried, then add one rivet forward and one behind where they join.
Cheers,
Ken

[Steve Bookout]

  I too, would avoid steel pins and use wooden dowels well set with Acraglas.  Just be careful not to apply too much pressure when seating the dowels into the end of the stock as hydraulic pressure can build and split the forearm.  A sad case, indeedy.  Cheers, Bookie

[rsells]

Bill,
I agree with Guy, the Bogle rifle on Mel's web page is a good example of a Southern rifle butt plate with  less curvature giving a shorter toe.  Also, you can look on Dixie gunworks webb page under antique arms, longarms, contempory pen/ken rifles, #17547, and enlarge the rifle photo to see the butt plate I make for people who do not want the long pointed toe.  It still has enough of a curve to keep it appealing to the eye, and is more comfortable to shoot as well.  It all depends upon how much too short the stock blank is.  You may have to change the curvature of the butt plate as well as lengthen the nose cap a bit to get what you are looking for.  Good luck.
                                                         Roger Sells

[Roger Fisher]

  I too, would avoid steel pins and use wooden dowels well set with Acraglas.  Just be careful not to apply too much pressure when seating the dowels into the end of the stock as hydraulic pressure can build and split the forearm.  A sad case, indeedy.  Cheers, Bookie

Would suggest also to groove said wood dowels down one side to rule out that pressure possibility!   Should work out just fine and only you will know.  I know of at least one contemporary long rifle that the builder (not me) used accraglass to join the 2 and I couldn't tell if dowels were also used..

[Dale Halterman]

Unless this is the last rifle you ever intend to build, you could buy another piece of ash for this gun and save the one you have for a future project. Or sell it or trade it.

Don't compromise on a design you really want. It will bother you every time you look at it if you do.

Dale H