Big Bore Hawken?

[Longknife]

QUOTE from previous thread----"Stock design is NOT meant for calibers much over 54. The modern hardware is usually undersized as well. If you must have one this large you need to make a Manton. Its correct for the period and place and will be usable in 62.
If you gotta have a Hawken make it in 54. Its what the stock design is maxed out at."""

Which brings to mind that The Hawken Bros built a rifle with a 42 inch barrel that carried a one ounce ball (.68) for Gen. William Ashley. Are there any better description of this rifle? I wonder if it was of the standard "Hawken" profile or if Sam and Jake modified it to take the recoil better. Has any noted contemporary maker ever  made an "accurate " copy of this gun??? I do know it was probably a one of a kind, but is very interesting, is there any more info on this gun???

[Bob Roller]

In the late 1960's when the Hawken craze really took off,there was supposedly a descendant of General Ashley's.a woman who actually owned this gun but was not given over to showing it.
It had to be a flintlock at one time because a letter was found that was an apparent reply to an inquiry as to the usefulness of the percussion rifle and Gen,Ashley's response was that he had never seen or fired one and had no idea if they were any good or not. A joint venture between Tom Dawson,Bill Large.myself and others produced what was felt to be a decent representation of the Ashley rifle and it was fired for the first time on the primitive range at Friendship in 1975?(maybe) I furnished the long,pre 1849 trigger similar to the one on the Hoffman&Campbell and Tom Dawson restored an antique lock,Bill Large barrel,Dawson butt plate and trigger guard and MAYBE Andy Baker for the stock which was walnut. I don't know where it is now and also no idea about the old one.No doubt the lady that supposedly had it is long gone out of this life.

Bob Roller 

[rich pierce]

It may have been quite a heavy gun and since it was supposedly early, 1820's, may have had a buttplate with a little more width and less curvature.  or not!

[Herb]

Longknife, I don't know who you are quoting, but I have built two .58 fullstock Hawkens and never had any problems with recoil.  This one has been shot over 500 times now, a lot of those loads were 140 grains of Goex 2F.  Here I am on an elk hunt in the Uintah Mountains last November when I slipped on a rock and came down on the toe on another rock.  Since repaired.

The Green River Rifle Works built their halfstock and fullstock Hawken copies in .45, .50, .54, .58, .62 and 69 calibers.  I remember one muzzleloader match in the late 70's, probably, where Doc White and I were tied and backed up to about 200 yards before I lost out with my .45 Green River Leman Indian rifle.  One of the GRRW employees was shooting a big halfstock GRRW Hawken, .69 caliber I think, and he had a powder load that would turn him half around when he shot it.  He was just goofing off, but he enjoyed showing off, that recoil must have hurt.

[Mike R]

There are original Hawken rifles in .58.  The only Hawken I ever made was a .58 made after one in a Taos museum.  The recoil was quite manageable, although I typically loaded with only 100 gr ffg. Higher loads were not uncomfortable either, but I did not try really heavy loads and was traded out of the rifle many years back in Colorado....

[Curt J]

I do recall that the lady who owned the original Ashley rifle had the late Keith Neubauer restore it. Keith was second to none, when it came to restoration, and was very familiar with Hawken rifles.  Keith told me about it, but I never got to see it.