Author Topic: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter  (Read 13415 times)

Offline flintriflesmith

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Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« on: January 30, 2012, 05:49:07 AM »
This posting doesn't really have a home on ALR because it touches on a number of research topics from set triggers to gun powder and we don't really have a research board.  Moderators -- feel free to delet or move it.
_____________________________________________
Letter discovered by Scott Paul Gordon in the Pennsylvania State Archives in the papers of Pennsylvania Supreme Court Justice Jasper Yeates. Translated from the German and published in the KRA Bulletin Vol. 38, Number 1, Fall 2011:


                                                 Christiansbrunn, the 9th September, 1773
Most valued Friend Martin Baer,
At your request I have prepared [completed/finished] a good rifle and sent it over to Mr. John Hopson together with 4 pounds of Powder. The rifle is decorated [inlaid] with silver wire and well made, as well as tested and she shoots right well. It has a double trigger, so that you can fire with the triggers either unset or set. Between the triggers there is a screw with which you can make it lighter or harder to fire. There is also a ball puller with which you can pull the ball out no matter how rusty she gets. She costs 8 pounds all together and with the powder @ 3 shillings per pound makes twelve shillings, for a total of L8.12.-. Because it is very good powder I have added two pounds more than you requested. I hope it will suit you well. You can write me a couple lines to let me know how you like it. Together with friendliest greetings I am your faithful
friend and servant,
Christian Oerter
Gunmaker



In the KRA Bulletin article Mr. Gordon, and coauthor Robert Lienemann, addressed questions about the identity of Martin Baer and why a man in Lancaster would request (order) a rifle from a maker in Christian’s Spring, about 90 miles away, rather than purchase one made locally. They note that the rifle’s price of 8 pounds was significantly higher than those inventoried at Christian’s Spring in May of 1773 & 1774 at 4 pounds to a bit over 5 pounds. Perhaps it was a better rifle as indicated by the wire inlay and set triggers.

This letter is an amazing document and I want to discuss a few other points it might shed light on:
•   The rifle was sent with 4 pounds of powder, “two pounds more than you requested” because “it is very good powder.”  We usually see powder documented as something purchased at a store in the period but this leads to the conclusion that at least some gunsmiths sold/supplied powder. It also reveals that not all powder was equal and that a batch of good powder was worth stocking up on by sending twice what was requested.
•   The rifle was “tested” and “she shoots right well” lets us conclude that, at least in this one example, the gun maker shot the rifle enough to evaluate its accuracy. One could perhaps also conclude that in the 8 pounds “all together” Oerter was including a powder measure and ball mold.
•   The detailed description of the set triggers — double lever type, firing either set or unset and explaining how they were adjusted — makes us wonder if Oerter suspected that Baer wasn’t going to be familiar with them. That in turn might shed light on how uncommon set triggers were in that region and time.
•   Mentioning a ball puller that would “pull the ball out no matter how rusty she gets” leaves a lot unsaid about Oerter ‘s expectations about how the rifle, even a “good rifle” used in a well settled region far from the frontier, might be neglected.
•   And, finally, Oerter repeatedly referred to the rifle as “she.” Folks involved in re-enacting and living history, who like to name their rifles, might want to keep that in mind.
"If you accept your thoughts as facts, then you will no longer be looking for new information, because you assume that you have all the answers."
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Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 06:05:23 AM »
Gary, Thanks for posting this letter. A glipse into the life of Christian Oerter. Interesting that he asked for return correspondance or how he liked the rifle. 

Offline bp

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 06:21:13 AM »
Thank you for posting this.  I think it reveals just how important Oerter felt it was to put out a good product.

Online tallbear

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 06:22:32 AM »
Great stuff Gary Thanks!!!!!!!

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 06:23:04 AM »
Thanks Gary for that info and posting. All very interesting. I dont know if there are alot of other documetation items like this on the subject so this is indeed a great find IMHO anyway.   Smylee

Offline Robby

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 04:50:28 PM »
Gary, Is it possible that the term "rusty" could be interpreted to mean stale or some equivalent, rather than neglect? Like in "I haven't done this in quite a while, I'm a little rusty." Meaning the gun might sit loaded for an extended period of time and he expects that the powder would loose some of its potency. I don't know, that was my take on it.
Robby
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 04:56:42 PM »
Very interesting thoughts on the Oerter letter!

The KRA Bulletin did a fantastic job with the article--which includes, along with the letter and Bob Lienemann's and my analysis of it, fantastic color images of the letter itself and a drawing of Christian's Spring from the Moravian Archives in Germany that had never been published before. I think that if you contact Ron Gabel, he can supply copies for $5.00:

Kentucky Rifle Association
c/o Ron Gabel
3539 Oak Ridge Drive
Slatington, PA 18080
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 05:02:15 PM »
This is wonderful. The first original rifle I ever saw in person was a Christian Oerter made in 1774 on display at Valley Forge....It was inspiring.  One day i will build a rifle in his honor.

"Signed Christian oerter 1774. Benninghoff collection.
One of four known christian oerter rifles.  One of 12 believed to have been made by Oerter at the time of the war.
One stolen from valley forge historical society was never located"
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 05:32:54 PM »
"One of 12 believed to have been made by Oerter at the time of the war."

I wonder where this estimate of how many rifles Oerter made "at the time of the war" came from? And what does that phrase mean: rifles made during the war or that had been made when the war began?

Surely he could have made more than 12 rifles in the dozen or so years he was at Christian's Spring before the war?

I suppose another issue is whether we should ascribe rifles made under the communal system to Oerter himself--or only after the trades at Christian's Spring were partially privatized (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, the signed Oerter rifles date from the period after the trades are partially privatized).

Scott
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

The other DWS

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 06:57:10 PM »
just as an FYI   In 2010, £8 11s 12d from 1774 is worth:    £844.00 using the retail price index    £12,500.00 using average earnings.   thi is form the Measuringworth.com website, a whole set of different conversion tables that I use when comparing historical pricing for research pruposes.  I could not get a direct 1774 pound to 2010 dollar so I simply used a british pound conversion.

colonial era value comparisons is real tough since different colonies used different currencies.  however just for perspective I tried 100 dollars in 1774 to 2010 dollars:
In 2010, the relative worth of $100.00 from 1774 is:

$2,790.00    using the Consumer Price Index
$50,800.00    using the unskilled wage

Data for consumer bundle only starts in 1900.
Data only starts in 1790.
Data for Production Worker Compensation starts in 1790.

But is any way you look at that was a very expensive rifle---even in its day  I'd hazard that 8/12 would be the biggest part of a years wages for a common working man

mkeen

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2012, 09:44:22 PM »
Trying to value an item from the 1700's in current terms is very tricky and often not correct. The labor component in the item is usually very high. In 1772 the cost of a new chest of drawers with 9 drawers, four long and five short was £5. In the same year the wood case for a tall case clock with a scroll pediment head, corner columns, blaze finials and carved rosettes on the pediment was £8 in walnut or £11 in mahogany. This is just for the wood case without the clock. The value of your bed and all its bedding could be £5. On one inventory a mare is worth £23 in 1760. People made a lot more than £8.12.0 in a year. The taxes in 1778 for a resident of Conestoga Township, Lancaster County totaled £5.3.9. This was for continental, state and county taxes and the individual didn't even own any land. Not the best example because it is during the war and inflation was taking place, but I don't have any at hand for 1773.

Martin Keen

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 10:06:25 PM »
Taxes is a rough one to try to calculate on as well ;); since values on non-land can be extremely variable even today depending on the quality and value of "improvements" and local market conditions.  When working with histopric data like that, the best we can do is come up with some sort of approximate estimate since economies were intensely localized and supply/demand market forces were not distributed over wider population groups---for the most part.

Whether it was worth a month's wages, or 5 ,or 6, it was a premium grade rifle

Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 10:26:59 PM »
One comparison that seems reasonable, which we used in the article itself, would be with other rifles produced at Christian's Spring before the wartime inflation--which Bob Lienemann's research (published in Moravian Gun Making of the American Revolution) showed to have averaged from about £4 to a bit more than £5. So by this measure it certainly seems a "high end" rifle.

Subsequent to writing the article, I did come across an interesting contemporary 1772 receipt for a rifle that John Henry (William Henry's brother) made for John Inglis of Philadelphia: it was a "Silver mounted Rifle" and John Henry charged £8.1/6 (8 pounds, 1 shilling, 6 pence). Not sure whether any of that cost involved transportation (or why Henry was making a rifle for a Philadelphian). So that rifle, at least, was close in cost to the rifle Oerter made and sent to Baer.

-- Scott
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 10:41:40 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

mkeen

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 11:26:29 PM »

Whether it was worth a month's wages, or 5 ,or 6, it was a premium grade rifle

I never said it wasn't a premium grade rifle. Unfortunately we cannot investigate the rifle to see how much extra embellishment was added to help increase the cost. Many farmers in southeastern Pennsylvania had extra cash to buy what they wanted. Silver wire inlay doesn't make a rifle more accurate but it does increase the beauty. The same thing goes for an expensive clock case. It doesn't keep time any better but it does look a lot better.  I'm finishing up an article on a Lancaster County gunsmith that died in 1794 with an estate worth £3699.5.10. He gave £100 to poor, had £208.18.6 in cash lying around his house, an eight day clock and case worth £13 and an old rifle only worth £1. He must have sold all his better rifles.

Martin Keen

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 04:03:05 AM »
This speaks to a number of things.
First the silver inlay.
Good powder-bad powder is not limited to 1773. This was a major concern and still is. At one time competitive shooters would give the stuff away but hoard the good lots. I used to get "bulletins" on what lots to buy.
Swiss has done a lot to remedy this.

The testing may indicate that it was going to someone who was a serious shooter.
The rusty comment is very interesting in that it speaks to the freshing I talk about from time to time.

I Nov 1775  George and John Girty  bought rifles at 6 and  7.10 respectively. In May 76 Croghan  bought one for James  at  8.10.
Higher priced guns may have increased status with the natives.
Dan


He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 04:06:56 AM »
Would be interesting to look again at the German word that our translator translated as "rusty" to see if there are other possibilities ...
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

C. Cash

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2012, 05:48:05 AM »
Very interesting...thanks for sharing.  Where could one view a good picture of an Oerter rifle from this time frame, on the web?

Offline grabenkater

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 02:34:17 PM »
Would be interesting to look again at the German word that our translator translated as "rusty" to see if there are other possibilities ...


I would also like to see the original German text, I think it may reveal more to those who sprechen Deutsch.
When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?

Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 02:53:54 PM »
Looks like there are some good images of Oerter's "griffin" rifle here:

http://www.kentuckylongrifles.com/html/christian_oerter.html


Regarding the original German: in the KRA Bulletin article, we did print (in addition to high-quality images of the original letter, which was written in German script) a transcription of the letter--so the original German can be consulted there. We used a professional translator, and additional sets of eyes looked over his work, so we're confident that the translation is a good one. But every translator must make choices and no translation is exact, so I'd be interested to hear if those of you who do speak German would have translated parts of the letter differently.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 03:38:03 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

JBlk

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 05:11:42 PM »
Thanks for sharing this letter with our community.I think that the reference to the ball puller suggest that firearms were not cleaned after use as we do today.Once after discharging the weapon it was reloaded until needed again.I am sure that they did not waste the powder and ball just so it could be cleaned.I also believe that the quality of gun powder varied to a great extent.Even today with all of our knowledge the batches are different.The silver wire inlay was probably was more of a whim of the builder than the buyer.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2012, 06:49:29 PM »
Thanks for sharing this letter with our community.I think that the reference to the ball puller suggest that firearms were not cleaned after use as we do today.Once after discharging the weapon it was reloaded until needed again.I am sure that they did not waste the powder and ball just so it could be cleaned.I also believe that the quality of gun powder varied to a great extent.Even today with all of our knowledge the batches are different.The silver wire inlay was probably was more of a whim of the builder than the buyer.

How thorough the cleaning was would be dependent on situation I suspect.

For the hunter out in the woods a shot can bring trouble so loading right away is a good idea.
The rifle might not be cleaned until the owner felt secure. ?
Also they were cleaned, I have read, with tallow on tow. They also did not seem to have tight fitting patch holders. The narrow grooves found on some original rifles would simply not be cleaned in this way or even with Bear/ Sperm Whale or other oils oil which are mentioned at least in the 19th century.

Then we have this from the 1840s




How does this work?
BP fouling, if cut off from moisture and air, it becomes virtually inert. However, the purity of ingredients can effect this and lack of pure ingredients can make the powder fouling more aggressive.
With the fouling of GOOD BP this would be a reasonable way to prevent rust.
He mentions cleaning with water when it becomes too foul.
The oils he advocates for storage would not work in a frontier situation where having the gun serviceable is paramount.

So we get into speculation and questions.
I have not tried it but its possible that a quick wipe with tallow followed by a dry piece of tow and a feather to clear the vent may have protected the bore and allowed loading without compromise. But I would not like to bet my life on it.
Leaving fouling in the bore in damp areas leads to the fouling sucking up water. This can wet the powder.
Would a wipe with tallow as above prevent the powder fouling from becoming wet?
I no longer live in an area with high humidity so testing would be difficult for me test this except in the rain.
This is another interesting topic in the actual use of the rifle.
I really don't know how the person who needed to keep his rifle ready did so. Modern experience shows that fouling is bad, turning to goo in high humidity. Carefully cleaning with water or oil out in the woods could get you killed.
Perhaps cleaning the vent with a feather and then wiping the pan worked well enough?

Dan
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:38:42 PM by Dennis Glazener »
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Robby

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2012, 06:33:40 PM »
Knowing the eighteenth century German language is a necessity in a direct translation of the words written, but a knowledge of the idiom's, colloquialism's, and slang used, at that time in that area, is important to know what a translation means.
Robby
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline spgordon

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Re: Letter from 1773 about a rifle made by Christian Oerter
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2012, 08:22:48 PM »
The translator we hired for the letter is a retired Moravian pastor, who has spent a career translating eighteenth-century Moravian materials such as the Oerter letter. So he was a good fit. But, as I wrote above, every translator must make choices and no translation is exact. We included in the KRA article the original letter (in script), a transcription of it, and a translation of it precisely so those who read German (and/or German script) could judge for themselves whether the translation seems adequate and, if not, to make suggestions for revisions.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 08:23:09 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook